Victoria Derbyshire today - sharing birthing experiences online are scaring other women

[JoggerBottom]

Hi all,

VD is due to discuss that online sharing of your birthing experience is frightening to women and pregnant women to the point of developing a phobia.

I have shared my experience on here and came to MN for advice from others when pregnant with DD2. I went overdue and, I have to admit, became pretty scared. I read loads of overdue / induction threads and I think it did add to my fear a little...but the fear was already there IYSWIM?

What are your views on this? Did reading other birth experiences affect you when pregnant?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/12/mumsnet-driving-women-request-caesarean-sections-leading-midwife/amp/

This is from the Telegraph and is on the front page of the Times.

There are a ton of people with bad experiences or very specific fears who come on here and understandably want to talk A LOT about their concerns and I agree it biases a lot of the conversation. I've never met anyone in my day to day life with emetophobia or tokophobia but it comes up on practically every childbirth thread I see here!

For what it's worth, I've had 4 births, encompassing natural, induction, emcs, and a VBAC and none have been my pre-baby dream of an orgasmic water birth with an enya soundtrack, but none have been horror stories (though c section recovery was a pain). Our 4 boys arrived healthy, my lady parts remain intact, the hospital staff varied in their approach but were generally lovely or at least did their best within an underresourced system, and the wards were a bit aged but fine. It's important that people know that it's not all sunshine and roses, but the pendulum has swung a bit far in making it all sounds horrific. Statistically good outcomes remain far more common than bad.

I think it's brilliant that women can share their experiences on here both good and bad.

Lots of women have no idea really about the reality of any of it.

Even the classes they do, they give (well I got) loads of warnings about having pain relief, how if you do it will inevitably lead to XY and Z, about how awful CS are

And NO warnings AT ALL about what can go wrong with a vaginal birth. Then this is where women with traumatic experiences, tears, incontinenec and so on dont' even have any idea that this was a possibiltiy, feel like maybe they did sometihng wrong etc, no-one to talk to the trauma about, loads and loads of struggling on and sufferign in silence.

Women are not children, we have teh right to know the risks and benefits of things when we go into what is a really major life event.

Agree with others that this feels like yet another attack on women getting together as a group and talking about their lives and experiences and giving each other advice and support AWAY from the "experts".

I am someone who feels better if I have lots of informaiton.

Reading MN did not scare me at all when I was pg.

What was awful was how the birth of DD1 went.

If I can help other women avoid what happened to me then that's good I think. The midwives may not be keen though.

Prob the birth industry as it were don't like women talking as it removes their power.

If midwives etc don’t want women to talk about their shit experiences of childbirth then they need to be petitioning for better resources and more research into maternity and birth so things can be improved and therefore there will be less shit experiences. Win win.

Telling women to stfu about their shit experiences of childbirth is another example of the constant sexism we face in our society where it’s pointed out time and again that our role is to do as we’re told and propagate the species. Fuck that.

Good post wonderfall esp first part. win win

She also warned that cuts to antenatal services meant women were not as prepared for childbirth as they used to be. Previously women would be shown around delivery rooms in the weeks before the birth but most maternity wards are now too busy.

I would have thought this is a much greater factor than Mumsnet TBH. Ante-natal classes and the tour of the ward were a huge factor for me in decreasing the fear.

I agree that women should be able to speak about their experiences as much as they want to, and that information should never be suppressed. I do think that some viewpoints get a lot more airing and time on Mumsnet than others - there are a lot of threads about how amazing elective caesareans are, and women who say they want as natural a birth as possible are routinely told they're being silly, and selfish if they opt for home birth.

I read birth stories but not on mumsnet or any forums. Instead I read books - I found this much better to be honest.

Also my mum was very honest about childbirth (she had six babies) in a non-scary way. So I was prepared and not really worried. Also a decent independent midwife made all the difference.

And NO warnings AT ALL about what can go wrong with a vaginal birth. Then this is where women with traumatic experiences, tears, incontinenec and so on dont' even have any idea that this was a possibiltiy, feel like maybe they did sometihng wrong etc, no-one to talk to the trauma about, loads and loads of struggling on and sufferign in silence

That wasn't my experience of ante-natal classes. They were clear about what could happen (for which I am glad - I ended up with a third degree tear and lost shed loads of blood)

This is silencing women pure and simple.

I've recently been diagnosed with pelvic organ prolapse. Apparently, it happens to 1 in 3 women post birth 'but is not talked ablout' quoted my GP. I'm now facing extensive surgery and time off work.

If I knew the odds of this happening were 1 in 3, damn right I would have chosen an elective C-section. My bad for wanting a fanny and bum hole that actually works.

And I know some smart arse is going to come along and say 'oh but women can prolapse with a c-section too'. Oh yeah? Show me the fucking stats because I bet sure as hell it isn't 1 in 3!

I binge watched OBEM in the countdown to my due dates, and love reading everything about everyone's experiences so I'm quite the opposite.
Reading people's labour/childbirth stories on here has educated and empowered me no end actually and helped me realise that many things which happened during my eldest's birth many years before I was on any parenting forums, were actually wrong and unacceptable whereas I took it to be the norm. I've made sense of feelings I didn't know I really had. I thank every woman for sharing their most personal experiences so that if there is a next time for me, I will know what I have the right to ask for and I won't accept appalling treatment as routine.

But I guess we should all just keep our mouths shut.

Also, it's just the nature of all online forums - that people talk about problems, not things they are fine with. Just as you don't hear much about lovely MILs on Mumsnet, you don't hear much about unproblematic but not amazing births. I had what I would describe as an average to good birth nine weeks ago and I posted a little about it in the first few days afterward, when I was still feeling a bit shellshocked, and then again when my stitches got infected from my second degree tear. I didn't post when I was feeling essentially normal again three or four weeks after birth, when I was able to start having sex again, and before this post I hadn't posted to say that although I don't think I'll ever look back on it fondly, I haven't really thought about the birth in a good few weeks! Because those are all areas where I'm lucky and don't need to post. As I say, I know I'm lucky and that many, many women have very different experiences. But it does mean that you don't hear much about births that are 'ok' - you hear a lot about terrible ones that lead to lifelong problems, and a bit about amazing blissful pain-free natural ones. Not much in between.

But people discuss their births all the time, in real life.

Anyway, birth is scary. Imagine if we just told everyone it was wonderful and easy and painless and nothing ever goes wrong. 😳

I think what has happened here is that the media have picked up on one comment that the research midwife has said and honed in on it to get a story. What was clear to me was she was trying to start off on VD by saying that social media and peer support is incredibly helpful to women but that some women who are already fearful of childbirth who choose to google about it are often led straight to mumsnet horror stories. I think a big positive about this story is that is brings perinatal mental health in to the headlines and shows how much more money and support maternity services need.

Agree with @LisaSimpsonsbff. People tend to come and post here when things are hard.

Of course we shouldn't silence women's voices - and MN is right to campaign for birth trauma to be bettee addressed -, but it would help the average scared ftm if the voices that did get heard were a bit more representative of actual outcomes.

I've never watched a birth video or read stories while pregnant if I could avoid it. I know how babies are made, how they come out, there are many risks, and that it is a unique pain. Reading horror stories and watching videos serves zero purpose imo, you can get educated on the risks from more reliable sources then a forum.

It's just another case of,
"Look, over there! Women talking... How very dare they! Shouldn't they be ironing?"

I'm the sort of person that likes to know all possibilities. I looked at lots of birth stories so i knew all the risks etc, found out late on that I had to have a C-Section and proceeded to watch lots of youtube videos of c sections so i knew exactly what would happen. Unfortunately for me my C-Section didn't go to plan and i've not been shy with the details for anyone who asked.

I think it's important to just not hear positive stories because people will be sold a lie otherwise! If I have another i'm not going to be put off by mine or anyone elses experience, because none of that will affect what will happen at the time. It just means i'll be able to make better decisions.

I was going into things happy go lucky but close to labour someone decided to share their horrible birth story and so I deciddd to google and I went into an anxiety attack ...

I was pregnant and didn’t want to go into anxiety attack .. I started hyper ventilating and waking up from sleep and I was beyond scared

Then I started listening to hypnobirtbing recordings .. and then I approach matters bravely and more logically ..

I was very grateful after I overcame my fears that I knew what I knew because things didn’t shock me at birth , it was stressful labour but I was glad I knew few things to help me assess ..

I now am looking forward to be pregnant agaiN

I think it depends what type of person you are, I certainly didn’t want to be told that things can spiral out of control. I wanted to feel like I’m in control of my body and decisions related to it.. so knowing the facts and knowing how to help yourself have an easier labour and so on was a lot better for me.

One of my friends shut down her ears when I tried to prepare her and after birth she was horrified and didn’t realise how bad it could get. Affected her relationship with her child .. part of me things pND is due to the trauma caused by the shock. Shock isn’t good..

I’d rather anxiety for a month or so over shock and trauma

I had a very traumatic birth. Nobody in real life (including the medical professionals with front row seats) kept me informed. However at the start of my 5 day induction hell I posted on MN.

The thread kept going. I had advice, was able to advocate for my child more and had support. It was a lifesaver. Pages of women who had been there themselves and prepared me for what could happen next.

When I had PND those same women were there to support me.

I'd rather be informed about possible complications than go through it not knowing.

I found mumsnet incredibly informative pre-birth. You only look at what you choose to look at on here so it’s easier to control than in real life. I also found mumsnet very useful when processing and complicated birth. Talking about it is really important if it’s traumatic shame on VD for trying to silence women! If you don’t want to read it don’t click on it’s simple!!

I'm pregnant with my first and I definitely think the real life stories have been the worst!

To be honest, I don't go seeking out birth stories. I know that intervention might be required, so I'm taking a "whatever gets the baby out safest" approach.

It's a great resource to have, but I like that I can close a thread if it's getting a bit too intense!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/13/women-childbirth-stories-giving-birth-painful

This is a good counter argument to that article. I think that the natural/active birth movement started at a time when birth had definitely become over medicalised and that the intentions were generally good.
However, it seems as though the pendulum has swung the other way. The Morecambe Bay enquiry which investigated the preventable deaths of a mother and 7 babies, highlighted the fact that the midwives had a mentality of ‘natural birth at any cost’ and frequently failed to alert medics when things were going wrong.
The RCM had planned a campaign to promote ‘normal births’. They changed the focus of this campaign to ‘Better births’.
To me, promoting ‘normal’ birth automatically makes me think that births that involve a lot of intervention or a CS are ‘abnormal’.
I think it’s good that women are aware that they have some control and have choices in giving birth but it’s also important to understand that some aspects of the process are beyond your control. My friend is in a very high powered job and is used to being in control of everything. She had every part of the birth planned out - how many candles, the music, the lighting and was devastated when she had an EMCS and only really came to terms with it after a debrief when she was told that her baby had got itself into a position which made him ‘unbirthable’ and that, without a CS, they would have both died.

I had a really difficult birth after an easy pregnancy. The first sign something was wrong was odd positioning in the late days. Looked it up on mumsnet and it can be an indicator of a difficult birth. There was advice here on what to request if labour went wrong. I'm glad I read it as it was very useful!