Robbie and Ayda Anyone else uncomfortable with surrogacy in these circumstances?

[Charlottesspider0]

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2018/09/07/robbie-williams-and-ayda-field-announce-theyve-welcomed-a-daughter-by-surrogate-7922256/amp/

I don’t fully agree with surrogacy for many reasons. Impact on newborn being removed from the ‘carrier’, impact on potential surrogates health. Also, the fact that unless the surrogate is altruistic, even in the uk where there are restrictions on financial payments for surrogacy, it almost will still always involve a financially Richer person compensating a poorer woman.

However in the case of couples who can’t conceive themselves or via ivf, and same sex couples, I can see what leads people to seek surrogates.

However this article makes reference to the use of a surrogate because their work schedules are too busy.
They also have two healthy children.
I find it difficult to accept that they are willing use Another woman’s body to take the risks of childbirth, paticularly in their given circumstances.

I think you want a baby, before your 40th birthday as the article makes reference to, then do it yourself, take the risks yourself and sort out your own work schedule to suit. It’s not like they don’t have the money in the bank to do that.

And if after two healthy children, a third pregnancy doesn’t happen for you, be happy with what you have.

Robbies famous comment likening watching his wife give birth to his first child, to his favourite pub burning down, to me just makes renting another woman’s body even more distasteful.

Each to their own.

For me, personally, if I wanted another baby and could physically carry another baby, I would want to be pregnant and carry my baby myself.

I understand why couples would use a surrogate if that was the only way they could have their own biological child.

It does strike me as a bit odd why a seemingly fertile/healthy couple would use a surrogate, but we don't know their medical history or if there were any problems sooo... shrugs. Each to their own.

TwistedStitch frightening, quite frightening

can’t imagine how a woman copes with being pregnant and giving birth with only money as the reward. It feels icky.

You'd have to speak to a US surrogate to understand the POV of someone who received payment for being a surrogate

But in addition to asking any of the surros on this thread or on the AMA, you could also read these to hear why some other British women decided to be surrogates, and how they felt after the birth.

My Family Was Complete But I Wanted To Birth Another Child, So I Became A Surrogate

Becoming A Surrogate Was Better Than I Ever Imagined

Surrogacy: Three Mums Share The Touching Reasons They Decided To Carry Someone Else's Baby

Link fail:

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sarah-taylor-jones/surrogate-pregnancybb_17758034.html

And https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/mums-become-surrogatesukk_58bea153e4b0d8c45f466173

Impact on newborn being removed from the ‘carrier’

No evidence of this. Assumptions taken from adoption studies don't hold true.

I'm uncomfortable with them having a 3rd child by surrogate. Why risk the health of another woman when you already have 2 healthy children

The surrogate will have already had several children in most cases. The risk for her is the same regardless. Which is the only relevant part of this. It does not get more or less acceptable - either acceptable for that surrogate (because she's chosen to do it voluntarily and wishes to go ahead and has no health issues that would indicate high risk) or it isn't.

I can’t imagine how a woman copes with being pregnant and giving birth with only money as the reward. It feels icky

Most surrogates I know would find this extremely offensive. No one who has other options (the only acceptable context for surrogacy and the conditions any reputable agency requires) would do it only for the cash.

You're entitled to think surrogacy is icky but I personally find stories of happy extended families pretty heartwarming. But I agree with @Pissedoffdotcom it's crucial we debate this issue openly:

The day Georgina was born was one of the best of my life. Having both parents supporting me as my birth partners was amazing - my best friends holding my hands as I gave birth to their daughter will always hold a special place in my heart. Watching them as Andria breastfed, and her husband gazed adoringly at them both, ensured that this wouldn't be my last surrogacy journey.

Within 18 months, I was giving birth to my second surrogate child, Miranda, for my second set of best friends. I felt so blessed. My surrogacy family was extending. The two surrogate children are now 14 and 13, and I still have a relationship with them and their parents. The girls know who I am, and know about their special birth story and they are proud. Proud that it took three people who loved them, to make them, Mum, Dad and Sarah.

The studies done so far suggest children of surrogacy are actually fine. Which makes me think that newborn 'shock' theories (or at least the idea that this is traumatic and has a lasting effect) are speculative and have explanatory power but little truth.

I understand there are women (and men) who will always be uncomfortable about surrogacy. They're uncomfortable about a lot of things that women do. Their voices are a useful brake at times. But IMO legislation around women's issues shouldn't be made on the back of that voice because so many women disagree.

Studies show it's harmful for a baby to removed from its birth mother.

Not applicable because those studies are done in the context of adoption and the emotional processing task for children of surrogacy is simply different. Research so far reinforces this; children know the difference - the most obvious difference being the biological link (usually) to the intended parents only. If you're planning to quote studies where this is not the case, obviously you're on the wrong trajectory.

If my neice reached adulthood and decided she wanted to be a surrogate, As a close relative and guide to her I would try to talk her out of it.
I think many women who say that they would support surrogacy, if they were to be honest, would talk their own daughter/younger sister/neice out of risking their health for a baby that was not for them.

If the babies parents were a close friend of nieces or another family member, and childless, maybe I could be more supportive.
But to risk her health for someone with two healthy children already, when I know what the consequences can be from a birth gone wrong, I would advise her against.
No amount of money in the world could can fix some birth problems. And even if it wasn’t for money, only expenses, well no amount of watching someone get their magic number three baby could make up for a lifetime of disability from childbirth.

As for the arguments most surrogates have already completed their own family, well that doesn’t mean they won’t suffer complications. The more deliveries can increase the risk of Some gynaecological issues. The surrogates own advancing age could also increase the risk.

I think there are few women who would support/encourage a close younger relative to risk their health in this way, particularly in these circumstances. Maybe I’m wrong and I’d be prepared to be corrected, if other people would be happy about their own close relative risking their health in a situation like this one.

charlotte I get what you're saying. But the only ethical circumstances for your niece undertaking a surrogacy journey would be if she had completed her family with no problems. In which case, to be honest, it's not your business and I don't think you should be talking her into or out of anything. That's unethical - the idea that women should be pressurised to do things by other women. (And no, I would never ask a family member to be a surrogate for me!).

That wasn't very clear - I mean, you're talking about your niece as if she turned 21 and wanted to do this. Someone on the other side of having their family is considerably more mature. Potential surrogates who are young are viewed with a lot of unease within the surrogacy community (as are those who are older).

I don't think the UK surrogacy community would object if legislation was introduced to say surrogates had to be:
(a) at least 25
(b) felt they had completed their own family
(c) carried at least two children with no problems
(d) couldn't be a surrogate more than x times.
While people are saying 'surrogacy makes me feel icky' there is not even a conversation about having this introduced, which is a pity and I think many would feel the same way.

I’m sadly long past 25, with my own children, and still speak to my mother and aunts and receive guidance from them.
People don’t make life changing decisions in isolation. I don’t think it’s unethical to discuss an issue with a relative either, when I would only have their health and well-being in mind.

And my advice to a younger relative (who may be older than 25 with children) would be, you really want to take all these risks, particularly for a couple who have already been blessed with children and just want their ‘perfect family’.
They have more money, so unlike so many other couples, who would be thankful for their blessing of a daughter and a son, they want to buy your body and possibly your health for their designer family.
I wouldn’t be happy about one of my close relatives doing this at all. I think most women if it was their daughter or neice or sister taking the risk, would feel just the same as me.

Oh and also for a man who likens childbirth to his favourite pub burning down.
Good grief most certainly not, I would try and talk a random stranger on the street out of having third a baby for someone who can say something like this.

Can't stand Robbie Williams, but the surrogate made her own decision, no one forced her to, why is it other people's business to worry about her health

Risks to the mother (or do we call them gestationers now?!) increase after the 4th birth.

What happens when one of these celebrity couples uses a surrogate who dies?

It will happen eventually...

Yes risking your health for someone else to have a child when you have your own children to try to stay fit and well for is something I don't understand. There is a poster on MN (they might even be on this thread, I'm not sure) who was a surrogate whilst the lone parent of a toddler and a history of MH problems including PND. Why the IPs would think this was an ethical choice I don't know.

This thread is absolutely awful judgemental bollocks.

If my daughter decided to be a surrogate & she had thought it through, done her research etc, i'd be proud as punch. I have never regretted my journey & my surro baby (well 3 year old) will be at DDs birthday party in a few weeks. No negatives here & i'm chuffed to say that so many folk got in touch with me after we did an article on our journey - everyone without fail said we changed their view on surrogacy for the better

TwistedStitch that was me. I NC & can't change back. Having PND in my history doesn't negate me carrying again, & as I mentioned to you previously, i had the full backing of my MH GP to go forward with surrogacy. Or are you not so subtly trying to say that anybody with PND is not allowed to have any more children?

No, I've had PND myself. I think it is unethical that any IPs would choose a surrogate who had sole care of a very young child and a history of pregnancy related MH problems. I'm also surprised that any MH professional would support being a surrogate in such circumstances. I'm glad things have worked out well for you but I judge the IPs in your situation for their willingness to jeopardize your health and the wellbeing of your existing child in that way.