What would you do? Historical child sex abuse within the family

[CV123x]

A week ago we were told my by husbands parents that my husbands half sister has reported his father to the police for touching her 30 years ago.

He has been arrested for historic child sex abuse, and has made his statement, we believe has also been to court - but now awaiting her reply for it go further ie crown/magistrates.

He admitted that he touched her on 4 separate occasions, 4 times of which he touched her breasts and once that he touched her vagina.

We were told this happened when my husband was a baby he is currently 30, so providing he was around 1 - she would have been around 12-13 years old.

She is accusing him of more, watching her in the bathroom, asking her to come into his bedroom and going into hers, for touching.

This is the first time my husband had any knowledge of this and understandably is shocked, sad, angry, disgusted, and is all over the place to be quite honest.

We have a 1 year old daughter, and his parents have told us that his father must only have supervised contact with our daughter. That we are to receive a letter to formally be told of the authorities findings.

We considered ourselves to be a close loving family, we saw his parents regularly, they had looked after our daughter on a few occasions.

His parents told us that the step daughter had told a school friend/the school all that time ago, that mum was called in to school and the social services were involved all that time ago - but there was no police involvement.

We haven’t received a letter, but have had a phone call from Social Services. They asked me firstly if I knew why they were calling, then told me to say why and what it was about, then asked how we knew. Our thoughts and feelings, how we have taken It and what we are going to do going forward. She decided to send someone around for a visit which we are due to have sometime next week.

We’re now all in limbo and keep talking things over and over. Our lives have been completely turned upside down.

My husband is sad because he loves his parents, and he had a wonderful upbringing, and they have always done right by him. He doesn’t want to cut ties with them as he says they are still his parents and that love is unconditional.

However we are finding it hard to deal with, we’ve only known ourselves for 6 days and already we’re had SS call and now arranging a visit.

My thoughts -

I can’t condone what he has done, there’s absolutely no defending or excusing his behaviour.

I’m sad that his mum knew, but still stood by him. I’m so angry about this, that she’s knowingly let my daughter around him. Why has she never told her son, did they think that because SS had involvement all that time ago it was over and it would never come back to haunt them.
I guess why tell their son if they thought he never needed to know? She’d already got 3 kids from a previous failed marriage, perhaps she didn’t want to be left bringing up 4 kids by herself, although the second youngest would have been 12-13 and the other two a few years older, So hardly young. Did she not want her son to grow up without a father, or only seeing him now and then. Did she think bringing him up with them both together the best option. Would my husband been the man he is today (the most wonderful husband ever) if they didn’t do what they did? What would it of achieved telling him say when he was 16 what would that of done to him? Do I wish I didn’t marry my husband and have a baby with him - no I bloody don’t. It wouldn’t have changed the fact I fell in love with him. It’s a huge shame we’ve ended up not having the family we thought we had. Id love to know your thoughts regarding his mother

My husbands thoughts

He doesn’t want to punish his mother but says she has some serious answering to do.

He has told them via text at the moment that they are still his parents and he loves them unconditionally, but he needs space and time.

He believes we should take a half half approach going forward, they never look after our daughter again, but we don’t deprive them or our daughter of their/her granddaughter/grandparents, but visits are with us present, and either we go to them or they come to us. That his dad can never attend any of her birthday parties, due to other peoples children in attendance, that we only see them on bigger occasions, birthdays etc and not to much on other times.

Currently we can’t even think of anything worse than being in there company, as we are still coming to terms with the news, and going over and over thoughts and feelings. We are yet to tell them they are uninvited to ours for Christmas.

However we have SS coming around next week, we’re angry and honestly pissed off that we now have them involved with our family, my husband and I are good parents, and now we feel as if we are on trial. I know they are looking out for our child, but what do they want from us?? To tell them we hate his father, that our daughter will never be seeing him again, because as “perfect parents” you shouldn’t want your child around a pervert, because they are right you shouldn’t, but do we now stop our daughter and any future children from knowing their granddad until they are of age we have to explain all this to them, instead of keeping some kind of normality...?
would love to know your thoughts on contact or no contact

My husband and I will take it Day by day week by week as to our relationship with the both of them, as me personally I don’t even want to talk to them right now, I couldn’t think of anything worse than being in their company, however I do understand they are my husbands parents and anytime and any contact he wishes to have with them nu himself is up to him.
I’m sure things Will get easier as time goes on with our relationship with them both (without our child and future children)

How do we know how things will be in months years decades time... im not sure what SS is expecting of us, we feel it’s a test if you say we may see them in time for occasions with our daughter in the future but it will never be unsupervised - will we flag up as shit parents, like we condone what he done??? Are we just as bad as I feel his mother is? Knowing all this time.... you shouldn’t want your child in the company of a pervert, but should you deprive your child of a grandparent(s)?? Kids aren’t blind nor stupid, but 5+ they’ll start to ask questions, how do I do right by my child? I’d never knowingly, on purpose or want to put my child at risk.
But if we feel we can move on and have some sort of relationship with his parents, do we lie to our children to say they are working or busy, what when they ask questions why don’t they see them etc.

At the moment we don’t know if his father will get a suspended sentence or the 6 months to 10 years his solicitor has prepared him for..
So how long he stays on the sex offenders register depends on that, IF he got 6months or under he would be 7 years on the register - so what then? He’s a huge danger from now until 2024/5 then all of a sudden he’s no longer a danger. The system just all seems a bit odd.

There is no doubt that things will never be the same again, but do we go NC or do we “meet in the middle”? I know i’ll always be watching him around my child and future children, and my trust for them both has completely gone. They aren’t the people I thought they were, but they are still my husbands parents and my daughters grandparents.

I’m sad and shocked this wasn’t delt with properly all this time ago....

I think we just both wish it would/could go back to how things were before, happy loving family, I guess it’s coming to terms with it and doing what is best for our family (the 3 of us) as Ultimately that’s what matters the most....

Would love to know your thoughts and views....

Many thanks for reading.

Open your eyes woman you are a mother, keep your child away from this predator, even if your dh wants to carry on seeing his parents, make sure they are clear that they won't see your daughter again. Just why would you want your child anywhere near someone who did what he did, and someone who knew what he did and stood by him?
I'm failing to see why you've not arrived at that already.

How can you ever be sure that there are no further victims? No further abuse? No further cover up?
They've kept this lie for 30 years and only told the truth when your SIL has found the strength to come forward.
Even in your supervision you would be suspicious of every look, every hug and every comment and I can only imagine what a struggle I would have to sit in a room with someone whom had done such a disgusting crime. Can you not say the same??

I was raped repeatedly by a family friend when I was a young teen from 13-16. When I was 16 mum announced that this person was going to be my baby sisters godfather and I panicked and told her everything. I didn't expect her to side with him and accuse me of lying but that was what happened. He remained as my sister godfather and I had to apologise to him for telling lies. They also kicked me out a few weeks later and guess who was the only family with a spare bed? yep.

I escaped as soon as I could and just buried it. I was still always close to my mum. My entire teen and young adult life was a drug fuelled disaster and I lurched from abusive relationship to abusive relationship. I met my husband and he saved me, without him I would likely be dead or at best a drug addled prostitute in the gutter. My abuse did come out but only when I was 30 and the girl I used to baby sit for, the abusers daughter got in touch to tell me that he was in prison for raping her every day from aged 7-17. My life just fell apart, I had a total breakdown but I also went to the police to report it. I have never felt such guilt in my life, If I had fought harder, screamed more maybe somebody would have taken notice and that poor little girl I baysat for would have avoided going through that. But the guilt was not mine to carry, I did not commit the abuse, I was a victim.

There is a very good chance that your husband is feeling similar guilt, that he suggests his mother ignored it to keep his father in his life is indicative of this. It also plainly states that the perceived price of him having a stable family was a young girls innocence. You should consider reaching out to HER (not his parents!) but be prepared for rejection. Would you feel the same way about staying on contact if he had in fact touched your child in a sexual way? if not, WHY not?
Allowing him any access is to risk it and that in itself is wrong.

This really does need to be worked through, for you and him, in a counselling setting. Abuse is not tolerated, and that is that. There is no sliding scale when it comes to an adult taking advantage of a child. Your husband and you need boundaries on acceptable behaviour reinforcing to help avoid this minimising behaviour. Do not make excuses, do not try to justify it His father sexually abused his sister, and the mother not only knew about it but made an active choice to turn a blind eye. By allowing them into your life, you are saying it is ok.

I would not see fil again. He would not see my child again. He touched at 12 yr old's vagina? That's a really deliberate and calculating thing, no 'accidental' brushing up against her or anything. Hideous.

I would not see mil again any time soon. And when (if) I did see her I would want to really understand what she knew at the time and why she made the choices she did. Only then might I consider maybe having a relationship with her again if I felt there was any possible justification for her decisions.

And I would try to reach out to sil. She deserves her family's support at last. Better late than never. Although she might not be very receptive at first, I don't know.

What a terrible situation for you and your dh. I can't imagine hearing news like that about my parents or in-laws. Your head must be a total mess.

I have never met my SIL - I knew from the beginning she wasn’t apart of the family and was told from the age of 15 onwards she would steal money from family and friends, did drugs; including whilst looking after my husband and his nephew. She tried to kill herself once too, married a “nutcase”, and her mother (my MIL) didn’t speak to her and very few knew where she was, only a rough idea on which county. My husband hasn’t seen her since he was about 18. however I do believe she deserves justice to what happened to her

This is horrific. One of the reasons why there are such low conviction rates is because the victim is very rarely “credible”. Funnily enough victims of child sex abuse often have behaviour issues, abuse alcohol and drugs, attempt suicide, try to run away. Shocking really - you’d expect them to be straight A students, with impeccable behaviour, who skip along happily without a care in the world!

Personally I wouldn’t risk it. Do you really want to spend your days wondering if your FIL is having sexual fantasies about your dd? And supervised contact is all very well but are you really able to completely supervise for Every Single Second. Do you trust your dh to supervise for Every Single Second. He will want to touch her vagina Every Single Second. You will have to get it right Every Single Second. The time you have had no sleep the night before. The time your husband has food poisoning and needs to run to the loo to be sick. When MIL is holding her and quietly walks out with her.

You know that MIL is ok with her husband sexually abusing her daughter. She’s still with him now so any bollocks about it being just for your husband is ridiculous. He’s 30 right? I’m pretty sure he’d have coped just fine with “Mummy and Daddy don’t love each other any more” at 18 or 21 or 25 or 29.

If she’s ok with what he did to her daughter she’s hardly going to blink if he wants to abuse her granddaughter as well.

fanny
Please read this post carefully, this was your SIL, you do not want it to be your dd.

Make no mistake, if you keep a relationship with them and any sort of relationship with them and your dd, you are condoning his actions. By your actions.

That’s not even getting into all the times he could find a few minutes alone with your dd.

Or the fact that you’ll have to tell your child when she’s older why you let a paedophile have access to her.

Or, why her daddy decided his love for his parents was unconditional, but his own child - well, he’s willing to risk it.

Is that who you are? Is that what sort of mother you are?

Why would you ever get less angry with your MIL ?
Don't get less angry and if you want a family maybe get in touch with your poor SIL.

"I’m sure things Will get easier as time goes on with our relationship with them both....How do we know how things will be in months years decades time."

Really? Why? Because paedophelia will just become one of those upsets you all move on from?

This is of course a horrible shock and unbelievably difficult to process - but I think that you have to start letting yourself appreciate that this is catastrophic to your daughter, your and your husbands relationship with his parents.

I think its totally clear cut that there is no more contact ever ever again with your daughter. Not even a question or a doubt about that. And I see no reason for contact with you. For your husband - a harder one. His parents are clearly majorly dysfunctional and there is no WAY they were SO dysfunctional with his half sister and functional parents for him. So there would be a whole lifetime of dysfunction with his relationship with his parents that will need to be unwrapped - tbh I found the fact that he texted his parents to reassure him that his love was unconditional a red flag. Call it conditions or boundaries - there really are limits to what behaviour is tolerated in a relationship and somethings that are so bad that a relationship does not survive - this is one of those things.

You definitely separately and together (if you and your husband) would benefit from expert therapeutic support.

(not that I think you;ve got time to look around for this but I'm sure I read an article about this from someone who went through the same thing. I think it might have been one of the Guardian "it happened to me things". So there will be other people who have gone through this that hopefully you can access to get support/understanding).

Oh and mother in law - totally and utterly as culpably as step father in law. Not even REMOTELY less accountable.

Best of luck.

I would go NC with both op. You can't trust them to keep your DD safe and you need to protect her. She's vulnerable and she needs her parents to look out for her. They can't be trusted or forgiven. If MIL let her own DD suffer at the hands of this man then she won't in any way protect yours. Supervised contact won't be good enough, he'll find a way to abuse her if he wants too. Sorry you have lost your extended family, that must be tough, but your duty HAS to be to your daughter.

OP why would you get "less angry" with your MIL over time. She let a man abuse her own daughter. Read that again to yourself. Yes, she let a man abuse her own daughter.

How can you just be "disappointed" in this? (You keep using that word). She is a degenerate , despicable , revolting woman.

If I was your daughter and I grew up with ANY contact with these 2 monsters, I would hold YOU responsible. Think of that.

If your DH can't agree with your stance, you will have to leave him and go to court for it to be upheld. If SS don't see you have the correct stance YOU will be under their eye forever.

SIL has given you the information that will enable you to protect your DD. Your MIL knew and did nothing. SIL is a better and stronger person than your MIL or FIL will ever be, now you need to be strong and resolute in protecting your child. Don't let those monsters near her. They've forfeited the right to family relationships.

Absolutely NC. The PIL wouldn’t even have a picture of my DD in their home.

Much of what I’m thinking has already been said above - re nc with both being the only way forward.

I think it’s naive to think that you might maintain a ‘weddings and funerals’ type of relationship with either. You speak about depriving your child of a grandparent relationship - but if the relationship by necessity must be that shallow as to only mean supervised contact on special occasions, it’s not much to deprive your child of, is it?

As children age they develop independent relationships. My girls have had independent relationships with family members since well before their teens, perhaps calling grandma to confide in her or meet her locally for a cake and chat. You would have to prevent this ever happening with your children, which means you would have to tell them and deprive them of their innocence at a young age. You would allow them to build a relationship with these people only to destroy it when you reveal their grandparents true nature. In doing so you risk also destroying their own relationship and trust in you, and causing them emotional damage. How would you be any different to grandma, in condoning and brushing under the carpet grandads behaviour? In selfishly choosing to maintain relationships with the grandparents rather than prioritise the safety and well-being of your daughter? You would be doing exactly what grandma did all those years ago. Let’s be real, she didn’t sacrifice her daughter and stay with grandad for the sake of her son, she did it because it was best/easiest for herself.

I can’t think of a single reason why it would be in the best interests of your child to have any sort of relationship with either grandparent in the future, but dozens of reasons why it could be detrimental. Any effort to maintain the pretence can only benefit the adults involved, to the detriment of your child.

This thread has opened my eyes to something in my own family that I never fully considered. My grandfather raped my aunts (his own daughters) and eventually my cousin. I was not aware of this till I was in my teens.

My mum kept contact to a minimum but we did have contact. I was rather freaked out to learn at 13/14 what a horrible man he was! By extension my grandmother also knew and as long as it wasn’t her she dealt with it.

I’ve long since accepted what happened and the truly awful childhood my father had. Tonight, this thread has opened my eyes and I truly wonder what the actual fuck my mum was thinking allowing me any relationship with these awful people.

Please, as a grandchild of an abuser, keep your children away. Just because you may protect them from physical abuse does not mean you can protect them from the horror.

Unfortunately I have no way of getting in contact with my SIL, I don’t know of her surname or what name she goes by now,, I have no contact details and no idea where she lives, my husband although doesn’t want to make contact with her, has no way of contact either. I hope she has people around her that she can rely on that she has had around her for the past 12 years.

I did say to my husband no wonder she was so fecked up!
The other daughter/sister knew at the time too - once they were called into the school, she let her sister go and didn’t have contact either, and she brought up her son and daughter around my FIL - a bloody lovely family I have married into.

I just think we need to just be our own little family, and have nothing to do with them, and see his uncles, aunts, cousins etc only.

Thank you so much for all your input and comments.
I’m glad so many of you have agreed regarding his mother!!

I do hope there are rules he has to stick to, to stay away from children. As at the moment he’s been told he’s only allowed supervised. Would make it easier if he just couldn’t attend anything.

Personally I can’t wait for more family members to be told, personally I think it may make my husband see more clearly - with everyone’s opinions. Becomes more real then I think - it will all be uncovered and out in the open and they have to face up to what they’ve done.

Perhaps my mil will then see quite what she’s done, once everyone knows what they’ve “covered up” all this time.

Does anyone know why SS wouldn’t have done more 30 years ago, did the police just not convict people of such crime 30 years ago?

"Let’s be real, she didn’t sacrifice her daughter and stay with grandad for the sake of her son, she did it because it was best/easiest for herself."

I think this is quite an important point and something that will be very difficult for your husband to come to terms with - and I imagine difficult for you to navigate with your husband. Your MIL is an awful awful person as much as your FIL. If it was me I would never see either of his parents ever again.

re keeping in contact with aunts, uncles etc - I don't think you should feel guilty if you don't. There is no reason why you can't make a lovely little family which will be everything your daughter needs.

I'm going to say something horrible but hopefully it will hammer home to your husband....i think you are already there with the non contact with them.

Ask your husband this question. How would he feel if his father watched your daughters nappy being changed?

Then ask his how he would feel if his mother let him see your daughters nappy being changed knowing he would likely get sexual gratification out if it.

If he doesn't want to never see either of them again I would have a really hard time dealing with that

Probably because 30 years ago child abuse wasn't spoken about.

If the family looked decent then the wayward child must be lying.
It was that kind of mentality.

Be prepared for many questions from SS.
Be prepared that if it goes to trial your local newspaper will probably cover the story. Your family name will be printed in the paper. Everyone you know will see the story or hear about it from other people.
You will be talked about and judged no matter what decision you make.
This is the reality of your situation.

Also he will be minimising what he done to her. And he will have done it to others

I'm so sorry this has happened to you but I think it's for the best you don't have these people around your daughter. Imagine if you found out when she was older

Without a shadow of a doubt they would be of my life. They would be out of my DC lives. If my DH wanted to continue contact then he would also be gone.

Your FIL is a paedophile. Your MIL enabled him.

Your child is the most precious thing you have. Protect her.

I think my husbands having a really hard time of it at the moment, he is disgusted with what he’s father has done, I think he’s experiencing shock, disappointment, sadness, and more importantly grief - he’s found out this a huge family secret, feels like he’s whole childhood was a lie, and now he has as good as lost his parents, or at least his father.

I should think it feels like they are “dead” but still there, but you just have to walk away and you know you should but you just can’t bare to walk away from all you’ve known and what you thought tall this time was a “perfect” family ... can’t think of any other way to explain it tbh

Thank you all so much for listening

I would block them. I find it disgusting

I've never heard anyone describe their family as "perfect". This, along with your husbands assurance that he loves them unconditionally is a red flag. I'm sorry to say I think there's probably more to this story.

I have sympathy for your DH having been there. The stress of my situation aged me by years and I was tormented about whether anything had happened to my own DC or any others that I knew (no evidence or suggestion that anything did thankfully).

SS will expect you to be very firm indeed in protecting your DC so do ensure your DH is aware of that. All contact will have to be logged and frankly do you want your child's name on a police report?