I was in prison in my early twenties, AMA

[Lexibletheflexible]

I was in prison about 18 years ago, between the ages of 19-22. I now volunteer with charities supporting female prisoners. AMA

Finding a way to make money outside of this (low paid job) trap and then using it to legitimately bolster yourself forwards seems a more logical approach to social mobility. That doesn't necessarily mean something illegal, but it might be

So as well as some kind of feminist crusade it's now become a recipe for social mobility

I suppose it makes a change from offenders "finding Jesus" in the hope of impresssing courts/the parole baord, but with a viewpoint like this it's all too easy to see why the family who raised them has "several members who've been in jail"

Thanks for responding. I sort of get what you're saying but the thing about operating beyond the law is that it makes you incredibly vulnerable. Yes, you might make more money faster, but you are necessarily surrounding yourself with other people who have no concern about the law, only about making money. And as a 13 year old, 16 year old, 19 year old even, you should have been protected from that world. In my opinion, yes, according my set of values.

I agree that jobs can be dead ends and uni has become an expensive waste of time. But you could have followed a skill, for example, learned to code, learned about finance, learned to sell legally, and instead of the chance of going to prison and being around gangs and guns, you would have had the chance to make huge amounts of money and be retired now as a millionaire. (There is still time for you to start on this path, if you haven't already.)

According to my values, rather than bringing my kids up to not respect the law if it conflicts with their ability to make money, I would teach them to find a skill that they can use to earn money legitimately. If they were mostly interested in making money, I would help them find the career that would match their natural interests and motivations, and never risk them having to shit in front of another person or beg a prison guard for a favour. But those are just my values, and you are right, we're all different.

I do give you a lot of credit for turning things in your life around and for your independent spirit. Far too many people just do things because everyone else is doing them and never really think deeply about what their values actually are.

"Yes, you might make more money faster, but you are necessarily surrounding yourself with other people who have no concern about the law, only about making money."

The only difference between what I was doing amd something like finance is that the people in finance have the social influence to ensure the law is on their side. The things they do are either not illegal due to loopholes and the like, or not seen as problematic enough to warrant police attention or even soelcietsl disapproval.

A lot of people truly believe that the wealthy deserve to be able to freely make money because they must have worked hard enough to deserve good things. Even a lot of poor people believe that.

"But you could have followed a skill, for example, learned to code, learned about finance, learned to sell legally, and instead of the chance of going to prison and being around gangs and guns, you would have had the chance to make huge amounts of money and be retired now as a millionaire"

I learned quite a bit about to balance books, generate reliable clientele and network. I am really not sure a career as a banker or whatever would have been a more ethical choice. It's just a legal one. We do okay. We have nice things. We do nice things. I've helped my partner grow our business as well as being the primary parent at home and working alongside that. There's more to life than having loads of money. But we are comfortable.

"rather than bringing my kids up to not respect the law if it conflicts with their ability to make money,"

Are you talking about enough money to buy a house one day, or enough money to live a luxury lifestyle?

True. But then most of my family also now own businesses and property despite not being very educated. So not only have they achieved more than many of their peers, despite prison, they put more back into society through taxes and employing people in their businesses who do as well.

He lived on the estate where both my temporary accommodation and my eventual permanent flat was. I knew him and his friends to say hi to because you'd always see them around there. That's where they grew up. Mostly better to be on friendly terms with your neighbours.

Great thread btw. I admire you.

@Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain

You are no better than OP. you did wrong too. You broke the law too. You did it for a good time, she did it for money - both self serving reason. Coming from a good family doesnt make a difference, if anything it makes it worse as you should have known better.

@Lexibletheflexible

the average person working in finance is not corrupt, OP.

I'll agree with you that there is a huge amount of corruption in many legal industries and it's not necessarily less ethical to work outside the law than it would be to work for some shady finance or tech corp. I would argue that if your income depends on harming innocent people, it's unethical, but I would of course say there's a big difference between selling ecstasy to posh uni students and being Epstein's personal assistant or being the CEO of a tech company designing technology to addict children to their screens.

But my comment wasn't really about the ethics of working inside or outside the law. It was more about how working outside the law makes you vulnerable, and how I believe that it is wrong to allow or encourage children to do jobs that expose them to potentially very dangerous people. And yes, the top echelons of tech and finance also have potentially very dangerous people, but as a teenager, you're not having to negotiate with the CEO. You can learn the skills you need to rise to the top in finance while you are also developing your social skills, communication skills, presentation skills, and having lots of different life experiences.

When you're 13, your brain isn't fully developed. You are still a child and I think it's very sad that as a child you were selling weed, and obviously associating with people who thought that kids buying or selling weed is fine, i.e. fucking weirdos. I'm worried about the ethics of the adults around you.

I also think that, while I take your point about the behaviour of corporations and very wealthy individuals breaking the law without consequence or even determining what the law should be so that they can maximise their profits, the principles behind law making and governance are still valid. I.e. what kind of a country do we want to live in, generally speaking? If we want a country with a high level of trust and strong community, then part of that is the majority of people sharing the same values. Another reason why I think encouraging kids into breaking the law, or treating it as 'just what you've got to do', speaks to very low expectations and quite a bit of cynicism about life.

Which I guess is a legitimate way to feel given that you were already navigating some shitty aspects of society at a very young age.

What do you mean you didnt get caught for what you actually did?what did you actually do?

also I agree it seems very harsh being sent to prison. Do you think it was your background and Im curious as to your ethnicity if that meant they treated you more harshly?

how long were you inside?

also what happened inside that got you into feminsim and philosophy?

What do you mean? What kind of evil did they do?

Fascinating thread.

A lot of sexism/classism in your story and I do think a bit unfair that essentially the middle class girl you were subletting to was seen as the victim here (and not you), as I think you were both equally taken advantage of by this male.

Definitely present throughout the comments with some ‘middle class professionals’ posters dressing their own part in the drug trade as ‘experimentation’.

I didn’t know about this particular police strategy in relation to gangs, but prosecuting women/girls for the crimes of men essentially sadly feeds into this narrative that we are all responsible for male behaviour.

What also stands out for me is that you started dealing drugs aged 13, so to me it sounds like you were possibly criminally exploited as a child. Whilst you may feel this was something you wanted to do and a good way to make money/start a business, I do think adults around you bear some responsibility here. Who was supplying a 13yr old with the drugs to sell and was anyone else financially gaining from your ‘business’?

You don’t need to answer these questions but Im wondering if you had as much control over your life/decisions as you thought.

Im a similar age to you, different background and life experiences but as a teen was in a situation where I thought I was definitely willing, but only as an adult can I see this was abuse and sadly the adults at the time were all too willingly to blame me for his behaviour. Even in the early 2000s the concepts of ‘safeguarding’, ‘exploitation’ and ‘grooming’ weren’t really a thing and a lot of us bear the scars from this.

Anyway thank you for sharing your experience with us.

Do you have any relationship now with your parents?

Does your partner and children know about it?

No, but nor is the average dealer that sells recreational drugs to recreational users. It's the people who sell to them, the people "higher up", that do the real bad shit. Finance is exactly the same.

To me, you're advising that people work as foot soldiers for legal but highly unethical businessmen, instead of illegal but highly unethical businessmen. I'm not sure why that is better other than you'd be paying tax on your earnings.

Someone from my background who went into banking is very vulnerable to take the fall for people higher up. Remeber that young black guy who went to jail?

No I don't. But this doesn't sound like a common enough problem that it should put people off going into banking! I have a brother who works in banking, he's done well for himself despite not being remotely in any kind of world where he'd have to 'take the fall' for someone else's dodgy dealings! I would think that is FAR more likely among drug dealers and gun runners etc.

That is a really pessimistic and cynical outlook, OP. I get it, but it's going to curtail your opportunities, and your kids' opportunities if you choose pass this set of beliefs onto them.

Yes, it’s a strange outlook isn’t it… banking is not as hazardous and high risk as drug dealing, OP, it just isn’t @Lexibletheflexible

Oh, they regularly use junior members in various ways to take the fall. Encouraging risky, sometimes illegal practice and then playing dumb when it all hits the fan. The turnover in that world is high. As is mental health issues, substance abuse and other forms of exploitation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p047v0b5

This is the guy I was talking about

Only because it is legal. Do you really believe people don't die and blood isn't shed over what at some point becomes legal money?

Reputable jobs are things like teaching, nursing, bricklaying etc. Neither drug dealing nor banking is a Reputable job.

Oh and my kids go to a local private but good enough that people travel for it. They have less reason to sell drugs or whatever than I did. Still, if they were unable to generate a sustainable income, and especially if they had a family to feed, I'd expect them to do what they can to make sure they and their family got through those times and grew. Even if it wasn't legal.

Yes, very close relationship. Always have. And yes. My partner knows it all. He doesn't have a similar background, though.

I'm white British and Irish so I doubt it.

I was inside for about 3.5 years in total.

I was convicted of possessing a firearm. At the time, I sold drugs but wasnt caught or investigated for that (AFAIK).

Nothing happened as such. I just read some books that built on what I knew from GSCE Sociology.

Do you do personal coaching? J/K but I do find your outlook interesting. What do you think was the most important thing in making you successful?

Work ethic and upbringing.

Are we reading a different thread? Not being unpleasant to the OP, but by her own account she’s an unrepentant former drug dealer who did 3.5 years in prison for firearms possession, is now a self-employed cleaner with a carefully worked-out line in self-justification, and who thinks it would be fine for her children to sell drugs if they ‘can’t generate an income’ in another way. I think we have different ideas of ‘successful’.