I come from a gypsy / travelling family AMA

[TowerTumble]

I have name changed for this. I see so much misconception and ignorance around the travelling community and towards families like mine. I've started an AMA so if you have any questions to try and stop this misconception I'll answer everything I can!

Hi OP, thanks for this interesting thread!
I grew up in a council housing street in a rural area, and half the other residents were settled Romani (I know that's not your culture). I've not been to a Gypsy wedding, but I've been to a Romani funeral and it was immense! All the women were in black and were wearing all their gold jewellery, and there was open crying and wailing. Is this what funerals are like in your community?

You describe a funeral as immense? Dear God

Immense means very large, huge…what’s wrong with saying that?

Yes, that's what I would mean by immense too.

Maybe it has another different meaning in Scotland @scottishgirl69 ?

I wanted to ask if there’s a problem with anti-Blackness and racism against other minorities in the traveler community?

I am asking this because I only know of 3 people who have been disowned by their families for marrying a Black person and two of them are travelers. Considering the vast majority of people I know are not travelers that’s quite a lot.

Additionally I had the worst racist abuse from a 6 year old girl traveler on their campsite or whatever it’s called while I was walking past. Their grandad or dad was just watching quietly for ages before eventually telling her to drop it. As an adult, I’ve never heard such racist vitriole from a kid that young tbh! If she can speak to a random adult like that I dread to think how she’s like in school to her peers .

I used to work with mainly working class white kids that were in foster care. The only racism I had from one of them was from one girl who I later learned was a traveler. It wasn’t extreme racism but still - it contrasted with the other kids who were lovely.

I may just have had bad luck with
the above , I don’t know if their community is any more racist than non-travelers but I am just wondering.

Not the OP, but I'm a teacher and I've also experienced this behaviour from traveller children. Absolutely not the only children with whom I've dealt with this (very sadly) but the difference with the traveller children was that it was much more overt/ out in the open and when confronted over it, they often haven't really shown remorse or accepted there has been an issue on their part. With other racist incidents in primary schools, the child in question has known full well they shouldn't have said what they said and it's been purposely said out of earshot of adults.

Are you confused about what ‘immense’ means?

Yikes - I feel sorry for the kids on the receiving end of that. And as a teacher it must be hard to get a kid to change, if it’s been painted as an acceptable thing to do at home. Interesting to hear you have saw a pattern too though.

It’s not something I’ve ever asked anyone from that community irl, but I have heard similar things from others in what they’ve observed or experienced.

I see OP has left the the chat, haven’t RTFT so don’t know why yet, but I wonder if any travellers on this thread will shed light on the racism thing 👀

They left partly because of disagreement (politely discussed) about a lack of life choice for their children, specfically regarding continuing education.

Immense is sometimes used as a synonym for amazing or incredible, so that may be where the misunderstanding has happened.

Sure, but it would hardly be particularly shocking for a funeral to be described as amazing, either -- if it were particularly big, or had a memorable wake, or was one of those ones were people were asked to wear some bright colour or a costume that was something to do with the deceased.

Re racism, there are some Travellers that don't like anyone from outside their community and this is further compounded if it's a person of colour. I've noticed one insult that is used to shame a woman is "she's been with black men" which is the height of scandal.
A woman I know of was in a very abusive marriage, had five kids and then finally snapped and left. She was utterly broken, but over time met a man who was a non Traveller and also of Asian origin. Her family shunned her and shamed her very badly, she had a little girl with him, but her mental health was in dire straits and she had underlying alcohol issues and the DC were all taken into care. Her family took in the 5 DC but refused to take the little girl because she was "black". From what I saw there seemed to be very old fashioned views about non white people carrying diseases.

immense means very large, I am assuming when used in the context of this funeral it means there were very large crowds there, why is that an issue? I recently went to the funeral of a very dear friend and I too would describe it as "immense" because the church full to capacity and people had to stand outside.

It seems like my suspicion may be correct that it is a thing and no-one as yet from the traveler community has denied it but iInteresting how there’s so much talk about their own marginalisation but this aspect of hatred against darker minorities seems to be downplayed.

If they do have an issue with racism it’s not that surprising I guess, it’s like in the U.S. many of the ones in the South with the most hatred for Black people and other minorities were / are white people who are considered trailer trash by other white people.

Often a group of people who have been discriminated against will go on and do worse to others they see as lower down on the totem pole than them. An ugly side of human nature. Also a lack of education beyond age 15 won’t help either.

A woman I know of was in a very abusive marriage, had five kids and then finally snapped and left. She was utterly broken, but over time met a man who was a non Traveller and also of Asian origin. Her family shunned her and shamed her very badly, she had a little girl with him, but her mental health was in dire straits and she had underlying alcohol issues and the DC were all taken into care. Her family took in the 5 DC but refused to take the little girl because she was "black".

I have to say that shocked me though, the idea of someone rescuing their white nieces/nephews grandkids but rejecting one because they are not white.

Even the more bigoted people I know including some from older generations embrace their mixed race nephews/kids/grandkids and wouldn’t hesitate to take them in if they were taking in their white siblings for any reason!

It goes way beyond being “old fashioned” and ventures into extreme racial hate when you can’t even accept a non-white child who is related to you as family. Frightening stuff.

@mrsgilfeathers

Galactosemia is an inherited digestive disorder that is significantly more common in the Traveler community than the wider community due to the traditionally small gene pool/ lack of marriage outside the community.

It used to mean a lot of babies died, sadly, or lived their lives suffering from crippling effects. Soy formula prevents the problems.

In Ireland, testing for galactosemia is only done at birth, and while awaiting results, Traveler women are asked not to commence breastfeeding. This has been the protocol for many, many years, resulting in very low breastfeeding rates. The awareness of galactosemia also contributes.

There are proposals to test during pregnancy.

Yes unfortunately racism exists in all communities, but possibly more so in very isolated/insular communities due to lack of exposure to other people. If I recall correctly the AMA on orthodox Jews had a similar question and response. Again it comes down to education.

The attitude to breastfeeding always really shocks me, it is seen as something very inappropriate and "disgusting". There was one Traveller mum who was part of a breastfeeding campaign and she had been on social media talking about the benefits of it and how it's a taboo in Traveller culture. I imagine as time goes on attitudes will change though.

This is part of the issue I cannot reconcile.

Do two wrongs make a right? There is a huge defensiveness here. Why not ensure you take the higher moral ground, be clean and respectful and when moving on leave things ok. Perhaps then, the prejudice would disappear.

Our local park was occupied a year or two ago. It was rendered unusable due to human waste, a local football team had to fold as they had nowhere to play from then on. It is difficult to have sympathy for people who will literally sh*t on your community.

I want to have that empathy.... I have taught Romany children, they have been inquisitive, practical and delightful..... And then my community is scarred by their people's behaviour.

Yes…that’s why I asked. The traveller women talking about breastfeeding were saying how disgusting and inappropriate it was etc. Didn’t appear to have anything to do with galactosemia, more to do with breastfeeding being seen as ‘dirty’

I have never heard of the galactosemia thing either. I read up a bit yesterday and various Traveller organizations have published research on very low bf rates. BF was standard back in the day but formula became a wealth signifier so people switched across. Less than 3% of Traveller women intend to bf, with reasons being cultural taboo, lack of family support and overcrowded living conditions. There's only one hospital that tests for galactosemia and results can take up to 3 days to come back if the baby is born after 10am on a Saturday, so that further reduces choice for women.

in regards to bf the women can be tested antenatally but that genetic screening is probably pricier so arguably another strand of health inequality alongside the cultural or social issues

Agree on insularity causing ignorance. Jews (even orthodox) are encouraged to race mix so I don’t think that colour would have been an issue.

There is a lot of racism that goes on in ultra orthodox circles. Look up the Yemenites and Ethiopians. The OP on the AMA said as much too.

Apparently it is not done antenatally (cost being a factor?) but there is a call for it in the hope that BF rates might improve.