Hello, I'm a TRA - ask me anything

[AlphaTransWoman]

Good evening,

I'm a transgender rights advocate. I say "advocate" rather than "activist" because I believe in constructive debate and consensus building rather than the hostile, shouty kind of activism that gets us nowhere.

I am here because I am genuinely interested in seeing if there is some kind of compromise that can be reached between pro trans and gender critical views. Obviously this is difficult because we may disagree about something pretty fundamental. I feel passionately that trans women are women (at least in the psychological and social sense), so there's an obvious divide if you do not.

The question is, can we find ways to co-exist and find an acceptable way forward on some of the difficult issues that arise around trans acceptance? So I'm happy to have a go answering anything you care to ask in good faith. Who knows, we might even make some progress.

For example, say I apply for a job and a sexist recruiter rejects my CV because I have female sounding forenames.

Men and women already have sex based discrimination laws so this would not be a goal.

In fact, some misogynists might particularly hate trans women as they could perceive us as "traitors" for rejecting the idea of being male.

Again, not a common goal.

They would be doing so by accident if they saw someone with the name Jane Brown. They'd believe Jane was a biological woman. Sex discrimination.

And if it was obvious that Jane was a transwoman, and they were rejected because of that, then it would be transwoman discrimination. Not sex discrimination against women.

If someone hates transwomen for being transwomen that wouldn't result in discrimination against women, it would be discrimination against transwomen. Again, not sex discrimination against women.

One word. Urinals. This is why men's toilets are a whole different ball game to the ladies. A gender neutral type toilet would almost certainly be organised along the same lines as the ladies, with cubicles only.

I'm not walking into a room full of men standing there holding their penises while I'm wearing a dress. Can you see why that might be an issue?

Still no reason for you to be in the ladies...

I'd be really interested if you had an answer to this, OP:

And more specifically, can you define what you mean by a female mind using anything other than outdated sex-based stereotypes?

And indeed if you could answer the related question: 'What is gender identity but sex-based stereotypes?'

Would you feel safer walking into the gents wearing a suit?
Why do you think you wearing a dress is an issue for other men?

I'm all for anyone wearing whatever they like btw and don't believe in gendered clothing.

An issue for you or them? Surely seeing a penis is not going to alarm you and they will see you as a transwoman using correct sex facilities so that is not going to alarm them.

I'm not walking into a room full of men standing there holding their penises while I'm wearing a dress. Can you see why that might be an issue?

Even if, hypothetically, you also had a penis? (I'm not asking whether you do.) Surely a penis is a penis, belonging to a male body, whatever its owner is wearing?

You haven't answered my question. But never mind.

You seem to be saying now that it isn't fear that stops you from using a men's toilet, it's just not wanting to look at men having a piss at the urinals.

I think a lot of men dislike that part of men's toilets to be fair, so you're not alone. Maybe form an alliance with men to get rid of urinals, that seems like a common goal you could work towards, and to have fully cubicled men's toilets.

Btw, I speak as someone who has used men's loos when there's been a queue at the women's because I was bursting, and despite apologising for invading their space, the discomfort seems to be all on the men's side.

OP - can you respond to my previous questions please? I respected your request, now I would ask that you extend me the same courtesy.

And as I asked when you raised this upthread - can’t you see why you walking into the women’s loos might be an issue?

Here we are OP.

it would be profoundly humiliating for me to do so and put me at risk of assault.

You mention the risk of assault in men's toilets in this, your third, post.

So, I ask again, how are you going to know if a person is a transwoman or a man dressed as a transwoman in a third space toilet?

And why wouldn't you fear assault in a third space toilet?

Single sex spaces being opened up to anyone who says they’re women puts all women at risk of assault.

We do not consent to that.

No. If I have to spell it out, the problem is the risk of violence from transphobic men who take exception to the presence of a trans woman in a situation where their genitals are exposed. They may, for example, assume the trans woman in question is attracted to men and committing voyeurism and/or seeking a sexual encounter, in which case an explosive angry reaction is very possible.

That's why I'm asking for your support for third spaces.

We fully support that.

But that’s not enough for TRAs, who seek nothing less than validation by forcing themselves into our spaces without our consent.

You have continually ignored scores of women telling you that that your "beliefs" are outrageously offensive to us. Women. Which is a section of society you claim to be a part of. Blows my mind, truly.

Actually, it's sadly not surprising. Since the dawn of time mens "wants" have taken precedence over women's NEEDS.

You are so unbelievably selfish.

You clearly doesn't give a shit about women at all.

You have SERIOUSLY offended me, based on a life time of hurt, pain and upset as a result of being a woman.

But you simply don't care, because you get to swish around in a smashing blouse.

I hope you realise how pathetically juvenile you sound.
In fact this insistence that your feelings should be indulged, despite women telling you what you are doing and suggesting not only offends them but makes them feel at risk, is verging on sociopathy.

Wear whatever you like, love whoever you like, I will campaign alongside you for the third spaces that I genuinely feel you are entitled to.

But you categorically cannot TAKE what is not yours.

Womanhood does not belong to you.
You can't have it.

So I ask, yet again, how will you know that a person presenting as a transwoman in a third space toilet is a transwoman and not a man dressed as a transwoman in order to do you harm? Or even is a transwoman but is a violent self-hating one who projects those feelings onto other transwomen.

How will you know that it is a 100% safe space for you to be in?

Well, exactly. You speak as though women were the ones purposely blocking this, op? Why? Why would we care beyond no men in women's spaces?

well, mate, you are not welcome to walk into our toilet and stand there and hol your penis.
So get those 3rd spaces going

Because women's toilets have cubicles. It's not like you are all sitting there peeing in open view of each other.

PS - I'm doing my best to get to all the questions. Nobody is being deliberately ignored.

we don't care if you think you can come in our toilets: you. are. not. welcome.

Many women don't even like other people hear them pee, or take a dump or rustle sanpro. They CERTAINLY don't want a man in there listening to that.

Do you have links to stats about TW being beaten up in men's toilets?
There is another solution to your toilet problem, and it is one that women had to use for years: Don't go anywhere

i think you would get an easier ride if you actually went back to page 1 and actually answered the questions

ITS NOT JUST PEEING.

Jesus fucking christ.

Spoken by a make who has no clue about what women might need to deal with in the toilets. Not to mention the fear experienced by people who have been the victim of sexual assault of having an unknown penis in the vicinity.

Why don't you care?

Not like ANY woman I've ever met in 4 decades. We all care
Because we have lived the same life.

Jog on with your male entitlement.