Hello, I'm a TRA - ask me anything

[AlphaTransWoman]

Good evening,

I'm a transgender rights advocate. I say "advocate" rather than "activist" because I believe in constructive debate and consensus building rather than the hostile, shouty kind of activism that gets us nowhere.

I am here because I am genuinely interested in seeing if there is some kind of compromise that can be reached between pro trans and gender critical views. Obviously this is difficult because we may disagree about something pretty fundamental. I feel passionately that trans women are women (at least in the psychological and social sense), so there's an obvious divide if you do not.

The question is, can we find ways to co-exist and find an acceptable way forward on some of the difficult issues that arise around trans acceptance? So I'm happy to have a go answering anything you care to ask in good faith. Who knows, we might even make some progress.

Not having to look at their penis is no good reason to have a male in the ladies. It's all about you, isn't it?
Including not feeling safe in the mens because you're wearing a dress. Maybe don't wear a dress every day?
I'm a woman and I wear a dress about 6 times a year.
Women don't feel safe with a male bodied person in the ladies whether they're wearing a dress or not.

Because women's toilets have cubicles.

Any biological woman knows that a cubicle with a door on it is not a magic shield that will protect them from assault from a man determined to cause them harm.

Any biological woman knows that a man determined to cause harm will do anything, even wear a dress and go into their toilet facilities, to do so.

So a third space won't save you from someone who hates "trannies" and wants to do harm, and transwomen using women's toilets won't help the women who fear assault from violent men, because we know what they're capable of.

And as ever, we're on toilets....
What you're seeing OP is the rage of women who have been told the sex class of women now includes men. That we are required to share changing rooms, toilets, sports and the rest with men who claim to be women. We were never consulted - just told that if we dare to object, we're bigots. It's a monstrous bullying of women to ignore our boundaries
You say you don't think children should be targeted - so what have you done about it? Have you challenged organisations like Gendered Intelligence - determinedly pushing trans activism into child healthcare? (see the Cass Review / Time to Think for the grim details )
Have you challenged Global Butterflies & all the other lobby groups about their targeting of schools (and even Great Ormond Street) gaslighting children that they can be born in the wrong body & be cured with drugs and surgery?
Have you challenged Stonewall about calling lesbians who don't want sex with men who claim to be women "sexual racists"
Have you challenged any of the organisations determinedly pushing this ideology at children? Because I have a limited interest in finding common ground with those pushing an anti women / anti safeguarding agenda on society - whether it's by the normal bullying or the emotive whining to persuade women to ignore our boundaries and hard won rights to privacy & safety from males.
You won't persuade women here to hand over any more rights to males. We're busy trying to reclaim what has been removed & more importantly to try to protect the young from the adults currently doing them so much harm.

Thank you for your question.

Ultimately I think only an individual knows whether they are truly male or female. So if your friend considers himself to be male then of course he is.

Obviously there is potential for dishonesty here. If we passed a law making all self-declared women exempt from income tax, say, the number of people claiming to have female gender identities would significantly increase. I acknowledge this is a real problem in some contexts, particularly criminal justice where women in prison are treated in a more humane manner than men. Hence the number of male born criminals suddenly "discovering" female identities.

While I acknowledge this problem, I don't think it detracts from the basic thesis that people know their true sex and (like me) experience dysphoria if this does not match the sex of their bodies.

The issue of personality traits is primarily how I rationalise my own female gender identity. My personality, as I perceive it to be, is more closely aligned with the behaviour I observe in women than that I observe in men. This does not mean, however, that I would seek to assign a gender identity on another person based on their personality. Instead I would look at how they present themselves and, if in doubt, ask them how they identify and wish to be addressed.

particularly criminal justice where women in prison are treated in a more humane manner than men. Hence the number of male born criminals suddenly "discovering" female identities
Oh, seriously, op, just fuck off. . You are either monumentally stupid or you assume we are.

Ultimately I think only an individual knows whether they are truly male or female.

This is madness.

You say you need space away from men because of saftey concerns, yet you say only the individual knows their sex.

How can it be possible to provide safe services away from men, when no-one knows who the men are?

Btw, OP, if you really want third spaces, go for it, campaign for them. I wish you luck.

But they are absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with women, so why you want to drag us into your alliance and not men, is strange, considering the more support the better...

My personality, as I perceive it to be, is more closely aligned with the behaviour I observe in women than that I observe in men

Hang on, you said this is behaviour that everyone on the planet (nearly) conforms to. Are you now saying it's based on the people that you personally have observed, and the subsection of their behaviour that you have observed, and knew closely enough to be told that they are women/men?

This is how racists justify their own prejudices, btw. "I saw ten Black people who were criminals and ten white people who weren't so that proves Black people are innately more likely to commit crime".

This does not mean, however, that I would seek to assign a gender identity on another person based on their personality. Instead I would look at how they present themselves and, if in doubt, ask them how they identify and wish to be addressed.

So how does this work for single sex spaces? You think the "women's" is for kind people. Someone else believes women are innately violent, so wants the "women's" space to be for violent people. Both have equal claim to characterise their gender as such. There ends up being zero commonality between what each person individually defines as "woman", so as I said before, the word literally becomes meaningless. It conveys nothing.

Why do you advocate for the term "woman" to become meaningless?

If nothing else OP, you’re scoring own goal after own goal after own goal here - I have to congratulate you on proving the absolute and innate maleness of TIM all by yourself. Bravo - take a bow.

Do all people who support the notion that TW are literally women believe there are essentially two personality types that are signalled by male and female bodies? They sort of act like they do, but it's quite unbelievable when you set it out...

Boris Johnson, Nelson Mandela and Peter Sallis are all rational, competitive leaders, and Maggie Thatcher, Serena Williams and me are all emotional empaths with low self-esteem.

Flies in the face of anyone actually being able to be their true authentic selves when OP knows better....

OP, you don’t want to go into the men’s toilets because of men - but by your definition, how do you know they are men? They may, in fact be women who just happen to have male bodies. Yet, you still don’t want to share a toilet with them - so perhaps you can yourself extend this logic a little (despite claiming to be a bit less rational than an average person) to grasp why you using the women’s toilets should not be something you would consider. Ever

While I acknowledge this problem, I don't think it detracts from the basic thesis that people know their true sex and (like me) experience dysphoria if this does not match the sex of their bodies.

Your 'true sex' is (depending on how you define it) your chromosomal sex or your phenotypic sex. In no sense is female your sex.

You can certainly argue that your gender identity and gender presentation are meaningful defininitions of womanhood in some situations but if you think that's the same as sex you are very confused.

I really think that (if you are for real) you could do to do a lot more reading on this subject on here and a bit less opining until you are better informed.

when OP knows better....

Isn't that....isn’t that.....

A stereotypical male trait?

Yes. We can. That's why we don't want you and your penis in our spaces.

It's stuff like this that partly makes TRAs (as in the ultra activists) so against debate and conversation. They just want people to agree with them because they know perfectly well it doesn't make any sense.

This is, indeed, a fantastic question and I'm sorry not to have addressed it before now. I'm now 100% sure, so I'll set out my workings.

If the world suddenly became like that tomorrow, I would almost certainly continue taking female hormones because I like the feeling of having a feminine body.

What I honestly don't know is how I would feel if I had been born into such a society. It may be that I associate having breasts, for example, with a feeling of warmth and security because they are associated with the female gender role to which I am strongly attracted.

I can say that my first feelings of gender dysphoria developed round about the age of six, and these were mostly to do with social rules. For example, I recall being reprimanded for making a daisy chain at breaktime when at primary school on the grounds that it wasn't "manly". I also recall going to a family wedding where I was most upset that my sister was allowed to wear a dress while I had to wear a shirt and trousers. It made me feel inferior to her somehow and less valued. I also bitterly resented being forced to wear my hair short while at a boy's grammar school and hated participating in contact sports.

So, if I was to guess, I would say that my unhappiness about being male bodied was created, or at least incubated and encouraged, by gendered roles in society. This may not have happened in the theoretical non-gendered society you describe. However, at this point my feelings about the appearance of the female body and the desirability of having one and the female gender role which I wish to live in are so intertwined that it would be very difficult to separate the two.

particularly criminal justice where women in prison are treated in a more humane manner than men. Hence the number of male born criminals suddenly "discovering" female identities.

You cannot be serious.

Male criminals are treated as humanely as female criminals.

The issue is THE INMATES!!

Male criminals would rather be away from other male criminals.

Male criminals would rather have access to female criminals.

You are so, so offensive @AlphaTransWoman

In your initial post, you state that you "feel passionately that trans women are women (at least in the psychological and social sense)." We are all obviously very well aware of the ways in which trans women are not biological women, and indeed you have talked about that in a number of your posts on this thread. Why is it so important that other people validate you as a 'woman' as opposed to a 'trans woman?' The assertion that trans women are women in ALL ways is obviously utter nonsense, and I assume that you live with that reality every day: I cannot imagine how difficult that must be for you. However, instead of insisting that you are a woman, why do you not embrace the fact that you are a trans woman, and be proud of coming out and living your life as a trans woman?

The insistence from TRA's that trans women are women is offensive, an untruth that is undermining biological women's rights and accomplishments. Women are being hounded out of their jobs because they dare to state scientific, biological facts. Women are being vilified, we have violence threatened against us for daring to say 'no, these are our spaces, our rights." Trans people already have rights, the same rights as the rest of us, but the cold hard truth is that women are being asked to move over, make space, be kind; swallow our discomfort at biological men trampling through our spaces, demanding access (and being given it!) to all things biological woman.

I realise that I do not write as eloquently as some people, but I will say that I passionately believe that biological women have every right to safeguard our toilets, changing rooms, shelters, rape crisis centres, sports, careers, etc against biological men, regardless of whether they identify as female. I support third spaces, but I don't see TRA's campaigning for those: they seem very intent on making sure that women (biological ones) are uncomfortable, intimidated and in fear of their safety.

As a final comment, whilst I understand that you choose to use a disabled toilet over the mens or womens toilets, please stop doing it. I'm disabled, and a disabled toilet is there for disabled people. They are not for trans women, trans men, people who can't be bothered to queue, or show and tell dilation stories: unless, of course, they also happen to be disabled. Surely the mens toilets have a cubicle or two in there alongside the urinals?

This is a person who wants to spend his life pretending to be something he's not

I'm not sure why anyone is expecting him to form any kind of coherent argument

One word. Urinals. This is why men's toilets are a whole different ball game to the ladies. A gender neutral type toilet would almost certainly be organised along the same lines as the ladies, with cubicles only.

I'm not walking into a room full of men standing there holding their penises while I'm wearing a dress. Can you see why that might be an issue?

Actually I can’t see the issue with what you’re wearing or you being there. I choose not to go into the gents on an almost daily basis. I care for an adult disabled man who is more than capable of using the urinals but not of being without 1:1 support. My concern is not for my safety but for the dignity of the men going about their lives. A man’s penis in a place you expect to see a man’s penis,( so not where you are getting changed or walking home on a dark night), is not particularly a big deal. You presumably have seen one before?

"Don't wear a dress"

So it's enforced detransition if I need to use the loo? Sorry, but it's not going to happen. Having experienced the sheer joy of wearing dresses and skirts, I can tell you nobody is taking that away from me, ever.

the sheer joy of wearing dresses and skirts

grim

Forced detransition?
You actually think you stop being a woman when you remove the woman costume dress??
I have no words to tell you what I think of you that won't get me deleted and banned, and you're not worth it.

You clearly aren’t a woman as you’d understand that the forced genderisation of clothes where skirts and dresses were forced upon some of us as uniform resulted in all sorts of sexual harrassment and assault in our formative years and not something we could opt in or out of based on our feelings.