I’m a feminist with a trans son AMA

[Fraida]

I’m a long-standing member of MN (since 2006 when my eldest child was born) but have named changed more recently!

So I have a 14 year old who is FTM trans person and two other younger children. My son came out officially as trans earlier this year but has been exploring his gender identity since he was about eight. This has been an interesting journey for us all as DH and I have always prided ourselves on allowing all of our children to be individuals and trying to help them not get sucked into cultural norms from a gender perspective I.e. a saying in our house is there is no such thing as boys things and girls things just things Like what you like and don’t get bogged down by what society might expect of you. For a while my middle child - a boy - had the longest hair in the house and loves horse riding both things typically associated with girls, for example.

With DS1 coming out as male I have had to rethink and relearn many of my own beliefs about gender and the whole transitioning process as Ill gladly admit I did have preconceived ideas and concerns about, for example, any gender specialists going down the route of affirmation rather than assessment as well as concerns about medication being offered too quickly. However in our experience so far this hasn’t been the case and there seems to be many more barriers and much more in the way of caution than I anticipated.

I will say however that the overwhelming negative impact on his mental health has been devastating for us all to watch with a number of suicide attempts (not uncommon) and chronic anxiety, to say the least. I do feel that whatever your views are on gender health care for children it cannot be right that psychological support and help is not more widespread and readily available.

Anyways I’m being brave because I fundamentally believe that dialogue is important and active listening in order to truly hear what opposing views are is really important in such a sensitive area. So here I am, happy to debate and answer questions but please don’t insult me as I am a sensitive human at the end of the computer

Can I just say it's refreshing to read an actual discussion on this. Thanks for posting OP.

I have an autistic child myself so i totally get that. I think Transgender trend et al have been quite clear that transition doesn't improve either mental healtj outcomes or those of people with ASD. Quite the opposite, i believe. If it were my son, I'd be gently trying to steer him past this craze, as I would with say, extreme death metal, or invitations from a religious cult.

Very happy to answer any questions you have OP.

I may have missed it but have you answered these questions yet?

How do you define being transgender? Is it "a person with distress towards their sex characteristics" or "a person with a disconnect between their biological sex and their gender identity" (if so please define "gender identity") or something else?

How do you define the word "gender"? Is it "stereotypes applied to people on the basis of sex" (babies with a penis go in the blue baby grow, babies with a vulva go in the pink baby grow) or "an innate sense of yourself as male/a man/female/a woman" (if so please define the words man/male/woman/female) or something else?

Sorry if you've already answered this elsewhere.

How do you define being transgender?

If I could add a couple of possible definitions to the list: a person with a 'that sex identity? A person with a 'NOT this sex' identity?

Thanks for posting OP, I. Have 2 teen girls, both with ASD and I’m possibly on the spectrum myself. My eldest is almost 17 and has struggled with her identity/gender since a very early age, at 15 she came out as pan sexual but has stopped talking about wanting to be a boy, she’s very much female, has long hair but doesn’t wear make up, wears mainly boys clothing but has a few girly things too. I tell her that she doesn’t need to explain to anyone what she is/isn’t ,she’s just her.

Growing up I didn’t really have any idea what trans was other than my dad pointing out a local trans lady (a man dressed in a dress, full make up and heals), it wasn’t something people really spoke about and I don’t think I met a male trans person until I was 16. I was very much a Tom boy growing up, hated being a girl, wanted to play with boys toys and hang out with the boys. I’m now 38 and most of my friends are male, I’m not very feminine but am 100% female. I do think sexuality and identity has been pushed onto our teens, when we were at school no one ever asked each other about their sexuality or gender. I think there’s a lot of pressure on kids these days to identify as something other than “their name”.

OP, I'd like to ask whether your child goes to a mixed or single sex school, and if changing for sport, etc, has been an issue?

OP Is your child's school friendship group largely girls or mixed? Am slightly wondering about the school dynamics and the long-term bullying you refer to (presumably this was at both primary and secondary)? I've got young kids and the thought of bullying already breaks my heart.

I think what my slightly garbled post last night was asking was, what sort of conversations have you had with your child, have you said "I believe xyz" and your child has agreed or disagreed ?Have you tried to tease out which things you are on the same page about and where your beliefs/opinions diverge? Do you 'argue' or debate, and if so what sorts of specific areas are key (or which ones do you find hard to grasp)?

Do you think they have a sort of unknowable insight into gender (that's not meant to sound sarky, it's something I've wondered whether some people have/others don't) or is it possible they've 'latched' onto a transgender identity as a 'normal' tomboy type child and decided it does apply to them even if they can't quite articulate what they think 'being a boy' is?

Also, I don't think you answered but I wondered if you thought gender dysphoria was necessary to be trans or whether you agree with trans activists that this 'medicalises' the trans experience and there is no 'requirement' to have gender dysphoria to be trans?

And yet there are countless examples of transwomen committing crimes solely perpretrated by the male sex, @TyroTerf, which would suggest the identification with their sex is actually pretty strong! Similarly, the many transmen happy to show off their huge baby bumps and talk about their pregnancies in the media shows that they too are actually often pretty comfortable in their female bodies in many respects.

Gosh, it’s times like these that I am very glad I was born in the 80s. I was devastated by my femaleness and tried to be a boy from 8-14. Hated my female body and was distressed about being seen as a girl. Panic attacks over baths and haircuts (mum didn’t let me have my hair cut into a boy’s style at first - she eventually let me). When I was younger, 100% did not want kids and would happily have let doctors take my womb and ovaries if it meant not dealing with Periods. Periods were a trauma for me. I hid them and also avoided using period products as much as I could.

And then I matured and by my 20s had grown out of all that. Still hate periods and run my pill together to avoid them.

I got a late diagnosis of autism.

Married to a man (that surprised some people!) and contemplating a family in my 30s. I now wear dresses. Played rugby and football for years.

But, honestly, from 8-20, I would have transitioned if that had been available to me. Womanhood exhausted me and I wanted to get out and away from it, and always loved being with boys/men rather than women.

Life for us right now feels like one long risk assessment...

As a parent to autistic children I can fully understand that, it perfectly sums life up.

I think autistic teens attaching themselves to an identity leads to this intensity that we, as parents, end up trying to manage. You have my sympathies, it is difficult.

I do think, though, that if my daughter’s identity was gender dysphoric trans (as opposed to mentally ill/anorexic), I would want this to be treated in the same way as an eating disorder/ocd type illness would be treated. Both carry levels of delusion (an awful word, but I really can’t think of a softer alternative right now) which shouldn’t be validated.

I despair at today’s society, where we have lost (through the internet maybe?) the ability to steer our children out of trouble, through difficult teen years through to adulthood.
It feels like the kids are in charge now, and IMO that’s dangerous for them. Responsible adults, whether parents, clinicians, or teachers, should have a responsibility to put the child’s needs (not wants) first.
Like I said in my previous post, affirming an eating disorder and treating with liposuction or diet tips would be unethical and dangerous, so why is this being accepted with gender dysphoria?

You say your child has been terribly bullied in every single school year..... how do you not see that they are trying to escape the person that was a victim by reinventing themselves. This is well documented in many many trans people personal experiences. You say your child wishes they could just be a lesbian. They can. They are! Butch lesbians are a thing and your daughter can present as typically masculine as she wants. She's a butch lesbian. She can never be a man. But I totally understand not wanting to be a woman in this world. But it isn't an opt out system.

Does it concern you that transition does nothing to reduce the chance of suicide? That your daughter may well sacrifice her breasts and fertility for a poorly formed flesh tube that very rarely even functions for Urination ( never mind sex) and horrific scar tissue . That dozens of surgeries may be required?

Fair point, Ruffle, but not quite.

It means they've rejigged their mental associations to separate their own body from the social construct they don't connect with.

It falls down because other people associate that body part performing that behaviour with "being male" or "being female" (for obvious reasons).

For the sex offences, essentially this means "using my own penis" has been successfully detached from the stereotype of masculinity in their mind.

For the pregnancy, it means being comfortable with 'this body that is mine' doing 'biologically natural breeding function' but freaking out when 'mummies' associations are brought in.

For the pregnancy, it means being comfortable with 'this body that is mine' doing 'biologically natural breeding function' but freaking out when 'mummies' associations are brought in.

Because... they buy into stereotypes?
Is it really that hard to genuinely live as though you believe and understand stereotypes are bullshit without trying to change everything else around you?

It just smacks of 'I'm not a stereotype, unlike everyone else'.

Op, you should google images of arms or thighs post phalloplasty. Its horrific tbh, but I think you should have the full picture before you accept this as a possible outcome for your daughter.
Also, one of the most disturbing things I've read about this subject was an Instagram post from a transman who'd had all the possible surgeries and passed well, but still found it difficult to go swimming because they still experienced dysphoria. So what was the point of it all?? Maybe just maybe some therapy would have been a better option than all the hormones and surgeries 😱

And as a pp has said, the complication rate post phalloplasty is very very high. From post op infection, to actually having to have a colostomy. Is it worth the risk??
Take responsibility for what your daughter is being lead to believe

A PP pointed out about which groups are transing. I think this is something to think about very carefully.

These are the people I know - very young boys who like "girly" things.

• teenage girls. A couple of teenage boys.
• middle aged men.

So. Where are my female peers transing now it's acceptable? I, and my friends, know no women who have decided they are men. Several MTF. Lots of women who were married to men and now have female partners. (Being a lesbian certainly wasn't something you'd admit to when I was at school)

Oh, and those teenagers I know? 99% of them are autistic.

I fit all the diagnostic criteria for gender dysphoria between the ages of approx 4 - 15. I'm a heterosexual autistic woman. I still fit most of the criteria now, because it's based on stupid gender stereotypes.

There was a trans man on twitter - Scott Newgent, but I think they’ve left now due to bullying from TRAs.
They were very open about being disabled due to complications in SRS, open that the majority of women who go through FtM surgery suffer complications, and open that the regimen of drugs, cross sex hormones, more often than not shorten life span.

Speaking out about these things led to horrendous bullying and death threats from TRAs.

I think the absence of middle aged and old women transitioning is striking and revelatory. Stonewall could get out of schools and go into old people’s homes and talk to all the old ladies about their possible trans status. But they don’t. Why? One group is vulnerable to this ideology and one isn’t.

Well that depends what you mean by "buy into". The shit about what it means to be female is incorporated into the function of the human mind through experience. You can accept intellectually that they're bollocks, but reprogramming the brain takes effort. Most people can do it well enough and easily enough. Some people find it harder because psychological issues rooted in your experience as a sexed body get in the way.

The internalised misogyny is all self-directed. It sometimes remains even after you reject the other-directed stereotypes and get your head round the 'we're all human' part.

It's not psychologically healthy, because self-revulsion and -aversion never are. Therapy helps.

ALL the young autistic teens I know are trans OP. They all have big long list of labels listing their gender and sexuality on their social media handles, including my own daughter. That is the entirety of my own DDS peer group. In parents of Autistic Girls UK support group on Facebook, there is several posts a week from parents shocked that their daughter is suddenly claiming to have gender dysphoria. They go along with it because they don't want to be seen to be a bigot and then go on to confide in their friends and family who are beside themselves in celebrating and gushing over their DC's new name and pronouns because they want to be seen to be woke and accepting. Don't you think this HUGE trend is a result of girls not wanting to be girls because of how hyper sexualised women are and because they want to avoid the male gaze and misogyny all around them? I know that is why I was a gender non conforming child/teen, but in my day I was just called a tomboy. Accepting the trans agenda just confirms a belief in gender stereotypes.

This is a really interesting thread so thanks OP for starting this. It's allowing me to examine my own experiences much more closely.

I wouldn't say I've totally grown out of the "dysphoria" I had as a teenager. I typically wear loose fitting jeans, a bra which sorts of flattens everything down and baggy jumpers. I feel very uncomfortable in a swimsuit, not because I don't like my figure but because I don't like feeling sexualised. I was surprised by how upset I was by the Mary Wollstonecraft statue recently and I've realised it's because I hate the idea that my body (which I can't escape) is a sexual object for men.

This is why I ask the question "what does your child mean by dysphoria?". As a teenager you look for simple explanations for complex feelings and this can be especially true for those on the spectrum. I think my feelings probably stem from my experience of sexual harassment and assault. Perhaps bullying has played a part in your child's feelings?

To be honest, part of me feels like they just need a distraction from the constant navel gazing. Without wanting to minimise the experience, it is so easy to get stuck inside your own head as a teenager.

Thank you for posting OP and for responding to some tough questions so openly. As a parent and having worked with teenagers for years I can only echo PaperScissorRock 's excellent post where she commented:
I despair at today’s society, where we have lost (through the internet maybe?) the ability to steer our children out of trouble, through difficult teen years through to adulthood
Responsible adults, whether parents, clinicians, or teachers, should have a responsibility to put the child’s needs (not wants) first
Like I said in my previous post, affirming an eating disorder and treating with liposuction or diet tips would be unethical and dangerous, so why is this being accepted with gender dysphoria?

We have allowed adults with no qualifications or experience in child development, psychology, medicine or parenting to determine policy and practice in relation to this vulnerable group of children. Adults with a vested interest are successfully influencing this, with online being a perfect tool to spread misinformation. The consequences for this group of children / teenagers will be catastrophic.
As you and your family navigate this challenging situation, please view with more scepticism than your acceptance of the Stonewall statistics suggests, what is being said by adults / lobby groups with an agenda. They do not have the safety and emotional health / wellbeing of children at heart. They are pursuing a 'political' agenda.

Well i've never "rejigged" myself @TyroTerf but I don't buy into any social constructs surrounding my sex either. I think what makes the GC feminist position like a knife cutting through the BS: we think not identifying with the gender stereotypes associated with one's sex is the most normal and natural thing in the world! (Although any male committing rape is 100% adhering to male social norms, and then some).

Ruffle I'm glad you've never had cause to do that sort of reprogramming - in an ideal world none of us would have to.

But I think it's important to distinguish between 'stereotype' meaning the 'girls ought to do this and mustn't do that' bollocks, and the associations we build up through our own experiences, like the 'penises may be used as a weapon' stuff. I'll judge the hell out of people who subscribe to the former, but the latter? I'll stop believing it when they stop showing us the truth of it.