I’m a feminist with a trans son AMA

[Fraida]

I’m a long-standing member of MN (since 2006 when my eldest child was born) but have named changed more recently!

So I have a 14 year old who is FTM trans person and two other younger children. My son came out officially as trans earlier this year but has been exploring his gender identity since he was about eight. This has been an interesting journey for us all as DH and I have always prided ourselves on allowing all of our children to be individuals and trying to help them not get sucked into cultural norms from a gender perspective I.e. a saying in our house is there is no such thing as boys things and girls things just things Like what you like and don’t get bogged down by what society might expect of you. For a while my middle child - a boy - had the longest hair in the house and loves horse riding both things typically associated with girls, for example.

With DS1 coming out as male I have had to rethink and relearn many of my own beliefs about gender and the whole transitioning process as Ill gladly admit I did have preconceived ideas and concerns about, for example, any gender specialists going down the route of affirmation rather than assessment as well as concerns about medication being offered too quickly. However in our experience so far this hasn’t been the case and there seems to be many more barriers and much more in the way of caution than I anticipated.

I will say however that the overwhelming negative impact on his mental health has been devastating for us all to watch with a number of suicide attempts (not uncommon) and chronic anxiety, to say the least. I do feel that whatever your views are on gender health care for children it cannot be right that psychological support and help is not more widespread and readily available.

Anyways I’m being brave because I fundamentally believe that dialogue is important and active listening in order to truly hear what opposing views are is really important in such a sensitive area. So here I am, happy to debate and answer questions but please don’t insult me as I am a sensitive human at the end of the computer

I am interested in how identity became so embodied. My elbow and all of my other body parts are just there. I don't like them, I hate my body. It's ugly, it's failing me and it's often painful. But it's got nothing to do with my identity as a person. How does one's identity become so embodied? I'm not sure this compares with a painful injury. If you injured yourself in a way which caused no pain or loss of function (which is a better comparison?) would it make much difference?

I realise this might not reflect your child's situation but others on the thread might find this thread on Sweden and ROGD interesting.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4081055-sweden-sharp-decline-in-referrals-to-gd-clinics

Thanks for answering OP.
I have a second question if that’s ok, ignore if not.
Do you ever worry that endorsing the idea that he was ‘born in the wrong body’ to explain his mental health is endorsed by you in order to hide from any deeper probing as to what might have happened in his young life to cause him to do wholly disassociate from his own body? I.e, the problem is within himself and nothing you could/should have protected him from.

@everythingcrossed not insensitive at all... these discussions are important. I don’t really think of my children as their sex to be honest, to me it’s one of the lesser important aspects of them preferring to focus on their personalities and attributes. This in a way made it fairly easy to switch pronouns and genuinely think of him as male. I can’t really articulate the process particularly, it wasn’t overnight more of a gradual shift in thinking. I can’t think of a moment in time that I suddenly felt convinced more that it felt more right to call him male than female I think.

Hi OP
How does your son present at school ? What did his friends make of it?

My own ds has a ftm friend, but has only known him as a boy.

I do not feel any disconnect between my identity and physical body I can’t really say how that feels.

I don't understand this - what do you mean by your "identity" here? E.g. I can't comprehend what a connection or disconnection between my race and my body, or my name and my body, would be - what is it you are referring to? Your sense of how feminine or masculine you feel in day-to-day life?

[quote Fraida]@HumanFemale1 you can’t have surgery until you are over 18 so that is not possible and no not on puberty blockers as he doesn’t want the side effects and associated risks that come with these meds. We have looked at all the pros and cons of surgical intervention and read many, many research articles (I’m an academic so have access to these). Ultimately that will be his choice in the future... if he wants to go through surgery and is fully versed in the potential risks then I will of course support him in his decision. As a feminist I believe that decisions made about your body can only be made by you alone (as an adult of course).[/quote]
That's good that they are planning to wait until they are 18.

Did you try to explore the idea that their uncomfortableness with their body and the distress they are feeling is due to other reasons?

PS you should read this book www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/52076947-irreversible-damage

@Campervan69 our experience so far has not been that of affirmation more of challenge and curiosity. A good counsellor should acknowledge and validate feelings but then tease out the ‘why’ behind the feelings. I’ve been impressed by how robust the questioning and support has been from our private practitioners.

As he is only 14 he cannot start hormones until he is 16 and then surgery post 18, this allows time for development, maturity and to work through what he is feeling

This really makes me laugh. Because 18 year olds are known for being mature and able to work things through, like how a highly sexist patriarchal society, ridden with gender stereotypes, makes some girls believe they must be male.
I'm only just starting to properly understand all this at the age of 45

@WeeBisom I think it’s important and something I hope will be researched more intensively. The link is currently unexplained and unclear, I would be interested in understanding what the correlation is as at present this isn’t clear.

@DeaconBoo Stonewall have the exact figures here: Almost half (48 per cent) of trans people in Britain have attempted suicide at least once; 84 per cent have thought about it. More than half (55 per cent) have been diagnosed with depression at some point.

Those figures to me are shocking and deeply upsetting

@Harmarsuperstar

As he is only 14 he cannot start hormones until he is 16 and then surgery post 18, this allows time for development, maturity and to work through what he is feeling

This really makes me laugh. Because 18 year olds are known for being mature and able to work things through, like how a highly sexist patriarchal society, ridden with gender stereotypes, makes some girls believe they must be male.
I'm only just starting to properly understand all this at the age of 45

This is a very good point. His mind will keep maturing until 21 and then his experiences will still be very limited. What is the thinking about the arbitrary cut off of 18 and how does that relate to the evidence about how much people might regret the decisions they make? (e.g. is there any evidence of more detranstioning if people transition young?)

@AcornAutumn

Thanks OP

Like another poster, I am also wondering about this statement “When you wrote "the overwhelming negative impact on his mental health has been devastating", I was unclear if you meant the process of transitioning or something else in his life”.

The impact of experiencing dysphoria and how it makes him feel about himself and his body on a daily basis

Hello op. Thank you for being open and answering questions. Sorry to hear your child has had a difficult time to the extent they have attempted suicide. That’s devastation for them and you as a family.

Can I ask what your child’s experience has been at school and with peers. Do they know other young people who have transitioned? Do they experience bullying or have they found a friendship group that accepts them?

I am interested in ASD and gender dysphoria. I have a DD with ASD and the fixedness of her thinking makes her life very difficult. She feels other because the world works along different lines to the way she does. If she decided that it was her identity that was wrong then there would be nothing I could do to dissuade her from following that path. I can see it in other ways that are not as polarising as this issue. I’m not in your shoes, but they almost fit, and I would think ASD was the major influence on my DDs thinking. Do you?

[quote Fraida]@DeaconBoo Stonewall have the exact figures here: Almost half (48 per cent) of trans people in Britain have attempted suicide at least once; 84 per cent have thought about it. More than half (55 per cent) have been diagnosed with depression at some point.

Those figures to me are shocking and deeply upsetting [/quote]
Could you link the studies please? That does sound terrible. So that's trans people and not the wider teen population or people with depression?

OP thank you for sharing your story. I wish you and your family well. I do think @DappledOliveGroves last point is interesting though. Outside the pressures of our strongly gendered society would our kids be able to come to terms with and live within a healthy body? So much of life is seen as medically fixable now. It is perhaps only one way of looking at a problem.

[quote Fraida]@DeaconBoo Stonewall have the exact figures here: Almost half (48 per cent) of trans people in Britain have attempted suicide at least once; 84 per cent have thought about it. More than half (55 per cent) have been diagnosed with depression at some point.

Those figures to me are shocking and deeply upsetting [/quote]
Sorry, OP, I can see you’re working through the questions in order but those suicide figures have been thoroughly debunked. I think it’s Fair Play for Women who did the analysis of the study from which the suicide claims were extrapolated. I can try to find a link if you’re interested.

Have you read this OP about what is happening in Sweden.

genderreport.ca/the-swedish-u-turn-on-gender-transitioning/

I have serious concerns about the social contagion aspect of this. I have watched progressively my daughters friends come out as trans (transboys or NB) over past six months. It is now 4 out of the group of 7. They are 14 or 15 and 2 or 3 are binding.

What I have noticed is the deterioration of each of those teens mental health since coming out. This certainly doesn’t seem to be helping them at all.

@DeaconBoo

With DS1 coming out as male I have had to rethink and relearn many of my own beliefs about gender

Also, are you able to specify what you mean here? You said you were anti-stereotypes, so what did you have to change in your attitude? It sounds like you've given it a lot of thought and introspection, so would love if you could share.

I guess like many of you I thought in a very binary and biological way maybe - you are born with male or female body parts and that is that nothing to see let’s move on. Everything else is about gender expression or cultural expectations. But this has made me think about the brain and the wiring of the brain and how this defines gender too. Neuroscience fascinates me and thus I’m rethinking and relearning what gender means.

@grool

Hi Op, thanks for posting 😊 has your son not been offered any counselling via the NHS? That is shocking, considering hpw life sltering puberty blockers at 16 and surgery possibly at 18 could be.

I definitely agree more time needs to be invested into providing counselling for children who experience gender dysphoria, before they are prescribed blockers and hormones. And i'm so glad you aren't going down the Gender GP route, they do not have your child's best interests in mind. Wishing you all well!

I wish! Nope nothing is available at all and every parent I have ever spoken to with a trans child says exactly the same thing. Access to psychological support is woeful. There is currently a three year waiting list to get to the Tavi meanwhile what are all these children supposed to do I think it’s cruel to leave a child experiencing so much mental distress for that length of time, even if you don’t agree with medical intervention surely everyone can be behind psychological support.

My son frequently says if people knew how sh*t it was to have gender dysphoria they would realise that it’s not a choice as no one would willingly put themselves through this.

OP I'm interested in your thoughts about neuroscience. I did not think there was any peer reviewed that male and female minds differ (brains yes e.g. in terms of things like language centers) but I don't think there is anything which suggests that brain differences link with 'gender' in any way. Am I wrong? Can you share studies if there are any?

Cani ask where you’re getting your information from, OP?

In particular your last post where you talk about human brains being wired differently according to your “gender identity”.

How do you define (1) gender and (2) gender identity?

[quote Fraida]@DeaconBoo Stonewall have the exact figures here: Almost half (48 per cent) of trans people in Britain have attempted suicide at least once; 84 per cent have thought about it. More than half (55 per cent) have been diagnosed with depression at some point.

Those figures to me are shocking and deeply upsetting [/quote]
Have you read the papers published by ex-tavistock clinicians about these suicide statistics? The clinicians are saying they are not seeing these numbers as being correct. And they also have said that they have noticed that the rates that they are witnessing also doesn’t go down with transition. In fact, they suggest it may be higher after because mental health issues have not been adequately addressed.