I'm a Quaker AMA

[QuakerAMA]

I'm a member of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers). I'm British, so if I say "Quakers believe ...", I'll mean British Quakers. Quakers across the world can be very different, so do bear that in mind if you're in another country.

AMA.

@SciFiScream

I'm really drawn to everything you have said. It feels a bit like 'home' however I have a background in the military and while I wish it were not so, I do believe we need a military.

How would that fit into the pacifism belief?

That's a very interesting question.

Quakers are famously a pacifist church. It's not one of the values that speaks so directly to me, but it does very much to some Quakers. At any Meeting, you'll probably have ex-Greenham Women, and supporters of Campaign Against the Arms Trade and CND, and lots of white-poppy wearers. Many are very involved in anti-war movements, so I guess you'd have to decide if you were comfortable with that.

Many Quakers were famously conscientious objectors in both wars, and they're very proud of things like the Friend's Ambulance Unit. What is less well-known is that many Quakers also served in both wars. Some Quaker schools have two sets of war memorials - one remembering conscientious objectors and another remembering those who died. Britain Yearly Meeting (the national body) never managed to issue a statement condemning the first world war, because they couldn't reach a consensus about whether they opposed it.

So I think you could absolutely be a Quaker who supported the military. I think you would have to be okay with being part of a community which was actively and vocally anti-military though. I should also warn you, that some of the aforementioned plain-speaking Friends would be very interested in talking to you about it, possibly at great length. I hope they would be respectful - I think many would - but as a pp said, Quakers are pacifists but not passive, and some can be very direct.

@JoJothesquirrel

Thank you for answering my questions.

Particularly about the wedding. I feel so much is said without thought at more mainstream weddings (more frequent I mean, not that yours was weird). “I’ve loved you from the moment I met you” “I cant live without you” “I’ll remember this day forever” “our princess is so happy”. There not lies as such, more pointless words.

It must be so interesting and refreshing to be in a worship (meeting?) where someone only speaks when they feel they have something to say and people practise thinking and weighing their thoughts before they speak.

Also the history of Quakerism is so interesting, a quiet peaceful religion facing up to the might of the status quo.

So this might be like the oats: is Quaker style furniture/kitchens etc a real thing?

Thank you! I loved my wedding (though it was definitely weird). And it did feel very honest.

Re kitchens, I think you might be thinking of the Shakers, who are another puritan-type seventeenth-century region. They're similar but not the same. They're often confused though.

Ahem, yup. That’s exactly what I’m thinking off. I know we had a shaker kitchen when I was young and got them confused with the oats. Sorry! See should check I’m not talking garbage before I start typing.

Sorry OP, me again. I wonder how the emphasis on consensus at business meetings/Meetings works in practice and whether (consciously, deliberately or otherwise) one person’s words might carry more weight than others’ - for example, if there is a decision to be made or a discussion to be had and someone in a senior position within the Meeting (an Elder?) says x, is there then pressure to agree with or endorse that in some way, or keep quiet about a contrary position? Do your teachings acknowledge or address this issue at all?

Consensus is obviously one of those things which is very straightforward on paper, but which can be subject to all sorts of influence and behind the scenes wrangling in real life.

(I’m asking because I am currently engaging with an Anglican PCC on an issue not to do with religion, and the machinations and cap-doffing and ego are a significant obstacle. I’ve experienced similar at my synagogue too, and I think it’s something that’s almost inherent in established organisations, whether religious or not.)

I must admit, I thought Quakers were Christians rather than being multi-and-non-faith. I am interested, I'm agnostic bordering in atheist, but have already started reading more ...

@EssentialHummus

Sorry OP, me again. I wonder how the emphasis on consensus at business meetings/Meetings works in practice and whether (consciously, deliberately or otherwise) one person’s words might carry more weight than others’ - for example, if there is a decision to be made or a discussion to be had and someone in a senior position within the Meeting (an Elder?) says x, is there then pressure to agree with or endorse that in some way, or keep quiet about a contrary position? Do your teachings acknowledge or address this issue at all?

Consensus is obviously one of those things which is very straightforward on paper, but which can be subject to all sorts of influence and behind the scenes wrangling in real life.

(I’m asking because I am currently engaging with an Anglican PCC on an issue not to do with religion, and the machinations and cap-doffing and ego are a significant obstacle. I’ve experienced similar at my synagogue too, and I think it’s something that’s almost inherent in established organisations, whether religious or not.)

Another interesting question!

There's definitely a concept in Quakers of 'weighty Friends' - usually people who have a lot of jobs within the Meeting, or are on a lot of central committees. And yes, in theory all ministry should be equally weighty, but in practice it's very hard not to take more respected voices more seriously. I think that's true of all communities, and I'm not sure it's entirely a bad thing, though it definitely can cause problems. It's definitely something you have to be aware of as a clerk. And it's tricky because obviously some voices do speak from greater experience and knowledge, and you do need to be careful to balance the weight of that with the importance of listening to contradictory voices.

British Quakers have a literal Nobel Peace Prize in the basement of Friends House in London, but we are generally very bad at dealing with internal conflict in Meetings. I think it's partly because Quakerism is so important to us that it matters enormously. So I'm not sure I have any advice on how to manage it except to sympathise!

Thank you again OP.

Thank you for this thread, I was brought up a Quaker but haven’t given it much thought in recent years.

I wonder if you see any downsides of growing up with Quaker beliefs and practices but living in a very non-Quaker society? For example, my mum grew up telling the truth and believing everyone else was telling the truth. She’s ridiculously susceptible to flattery and I have to protect her from con artists!

As well as Quaker weddings, Quaker funerals are along the same lines, with friends and family speaking if they wish to. Funerals/memorial meetings can be very beautiful (and very heart-rending).

A very dear fFriend died recently and his funeral at the local crem was socially distanced and I was only able to watch via web broadcast. It wasn't a Quaker funeral really, as the crem seats were all facing the front, and there was a celebrant at a lectern, who spoke about the fFriend's life, and said some prayers.

I think the attenders had been told that they were not allowed to speak, but during a point where it was announced there would be a moment for silent prayer (heavy emphasis from the celebrant), a lady attending spoke briefly about her feelings about her fFriend and told a little amusing anecdote about him. And I thought, "Yay, you're not going to stop all the Quakers from speaking if they want to".

Beautiful thread. Also brought up Quaker and I must say, you've made me miss it.

Some Quakers attend Meeting and another church, often people like the PP who want music and singing in their spiritual life. Some like my mum are just Christians who worship at Meeting.

Oh! So I could go to Meeting and to Evensong, for example?

I am so perplexed by my faith or lack thereof - always seems to me that I’m a person of faith in God but that I’m picking and choosing but maybe it’s ... not terrible? Hmm.

I was hoping someone would ask this so I don't have to ... don't you worry about your tummy rumbling/gurgling in all that silence?

And thanks for this AMA. I want to believe in God but can't believe in a god of hell fire and damnation. Do Quakers believe in an after life?

I was once told by a Catholic Priest (who was trying to persuade me to join the Catholic church) that I would make an excellent Quaker. I took that as a compliment, although I didn't know much about it, so I find this thread very interesting. The only Quaker I have ever known was my NCT teacher. She had a massive multi-million pound house in London, so was obviously wealthy, but with extremely plain décor inside, no pictures or anything decorative, it was rather odd! From reading this thread I guess that's part of the simplicity thing?

@Thneedville

Thank you for this thread, I was brought up a Quaker but haven’t given it much thought in recent years.

I wonder if you see any downsides of growing up with Quaker beliefs and practices but living in a very non-Quaker society? For example, my mum grew up telling the truth and believing everyone else was telling the truth. She’s ridiculously susceptible to flattery and I have to protect her from con artists!

Hmm. Interesting question, especially as I'm raising my DC as Quakers.

Most Quakers are somewhat unconventional - it's not exactly part of the religion, it's just that, as I said upthread, it's a religion with a lot of CND activists and vegetarians and people who aren't so worried about fitting into mainstream society. And obviously that has downsides when you're fourteen. My mum never cared much about make up or buying new clothes or having the latest ... Well, anything. Which meant I had to figure all that stuff out for myself, and was usually somewhat behind. (I'm still not very good at that either.) I'm not sure how much of that is Quakers and how much is just my mum - I suspect she'd have been the same if she'd stayed an Anglican.

I had plenty of plastic toys growing up, but they were all sensible toys with lots of play in them like Lego rather than cheap toys that broke after five minutes. I buy toys for my kids in the same way, but obviously when you're seven, pink Barbie dream houses are rather appealing. (I was never allowed Barbies, though again, I'm not sure that's a Quaker thing.)

I think growing up Quaker gives you a skewed sense of what is normal. I remember being surprised when everyone thought Corbyn was such a weirdo for wearing white poppies and cheap clothes and having an allotment, because that was perfectly normal when I was growing up. I had to sort of go, "Oh. Yes. We are quite odd, aren't we?"

There were lots of positives though. When you're a bit unconventional, it's nice to have a community where that's accepted.

@NoSquirrels

Some Quakers attend Meeting and another church, often people like the PP who want music and singing in their spiritual life. Some like my mum are just Christians who worship at Meeting.

Oh! So I could go to Meeting and to Evensong, for example?

I am so perplexed by my faith or lack thereof - always seems to me that I’m a person of faith in God but that I’m picking and choosing but maybe it’s ... not terrible? Hmm.

Yes, absolutely. People do. Or if your local Meeting has a midweek Meeting, you could attend there and go to church on Sunday.

Quakers are very big on the idea of spirituality being a journey and that sometimes asking the questions is as important as getting the answers. A lot of this stuff is fundamentally unknowable and it's okay to acknowledge that, I think. Nobody can say for certain if God exists (or if God doesn't, as I once took great pleasure in telling my uncle as a teenager). For me, it's the experience of a gathered Quaker Meeting which is the compelling part, not the theology.

@noColinleftbehind

I was hoping someone would ask this so I don't have to ... don't you worry about your tummy rumbling/gurgling in all that silence?

And thanks for this AMA. I want to believe in God but can't believe in a god of hell fire and damnation. Do Quakers believe in an after life?

Ha! Yeah, that does happen. Very funny when you're a teenager.

Quakers all believe different things, so if you asked a room of Quakers about the afterlife, you'd get lots of different answers. I don't think I do, but my mum does. Hell isn't a very Quaker concept, but I'm sure you could find Quakers who believe in it. Quakers are much more about redemption than damnation generally. They're also not afraid to say "I don't know", which is the only honest answer to a question like this.

@alwayscrashinginthesamecar1

I was once told by a Catholic Priest (who was trying to persuade me to join the Catholic church) that I would make an excellent Quaker. I took that as a compliment, although I didn't know much about it, so I find this thread very interesting. The only Quaker I have ever known was my NCT teacher. She had a massive multi-million pound house in London, so was obviously wealthy, but with extremely plain décor inside, no pictures or anything decorative, it was rather odd! From reading this thread I guess that's part of the simplicity thing?

Perhaps ... Although Quakers generally have pictures in their houses. I do!

There's no prohibition against being wealthy, lots of Victorian industrialists like Cadbury and Rowntree and Barclays and Fry were Quakers. (You used to have to be an Anglican to attend the universities, so most of the professions were barred to Quakers.) Judi Dench is a Quaker, and so is Sheila Hancock (though apparently she feels a bit embarrassed turning up to Meeting in her sports car). Though Rowntree famously gave up his mansion house after feeling it wasn't very simple. (It's now a Quaker Study Centre in Birmingham and yes, it's enormous.) DH gives 10% of his income to charity - I don't give quite that much, but I do make regular donations, usually to environmental charities because of my aforementioned eco-worrying.

I have another question if that’s ok. And I get I’m straying into territory that is asking you to answer for every Quaker. How do Quakers feel about children and relationships outside marriage?

A very dear find of time started attending (a totally opposite end of the spectrum) church when she had 2 very small children. She felt love and support and welcomed. When she wanted to join fully they slammed the shutters down unless she agreed to marry the father of the children. I know she is desperately looking to belong and for spiritual guidance but is terrified about being shunned again. Obviously I’m not saying “fix this for my friend” but everything you’ve said so far makes me think I could suggest we go along and see what she thinks.

Also is thing about Quakers not having to swear on a bible in court because they don’t lie true? Or have I confused it again.

I have to say I’m fascinated, but I hope I’m being respectful. Please be forthright if I’m not

Thank you for sharing with us, I've found this thread very interesting & enlightening. It sounds a very peaceful way of being.

This thread has truly made my week and reminded me that being quaker and being with other quakers really lights up my heart. I have also gone on a quaker retreat, which was wonderful. I also used to list an elderly quaker lady who struggled to come to meetings as her dementia got worse but there was always some kind soul who would take her care home. I also used to bring in the flowers for the table at one time and on the first visit, I asked where the vases were. An older quaker with a twinkle in her eye said 'We generally use jam jars...so much more quaker.' It still makes me chuckle.

On a certain day, there is often a shared meal after service, which is a great way to get to know the rest of the group.

Thank you for this, I've been thinking about Quakerism for a while as it quite appealed to me. You've inspired me to order a few books to read up on it. I don't think I would ever have the confidence to Minister though, Would it be ok to stay silent at every meeting? Or is that frowned upon?

@JoJothesquirrel

I have another question if that’s ok. And I get I’m straying into territory that is asking you to answer for every Quaker. How do Quakers feel about children and relationships outside marriage?

A very dear find of time started attending (a totally opposite end of the spectrum) church when she had 2 very small children. She felt love and support and welcomed. When she wanted to join fully they slammed the shutters down unless she agreed to marry the father of the children. I know she is desperately looking to belong and for spiritual guidance but is terrified about being shunned again. Obviously I’m not saying “fix this for my friend” but everything you’ve said so far makes me think I could suggest we go along and see what she thinks.

Also is thing about Quakers not having to swear on a bible in court because they don’t lie true? Or have I confused it again.

I have to say I’m fascinated, but I hope I’m being respectful. Please be forthright if I’m not

You're all being very lovely and respectful - thank you all!

She could absolutely be a Quaker, that wouldn't be a problem. I know several Quaker families with children where the parents aren't married. It isn't an issue at all.

Yes, the court thing is true. Early Friends refused to swear on the Bible because they said it implied that it was okay to lie in other contexts, which it wasn't. Early Friends were quite different to modern Quakers - much more fervent and evangelical and extremely bolshy. (We're still pretty bolshy ...)

Quakers now affirm that they're telling the truth rather than swear. It feels like a bit of a non-issue to me personally, but I do know Quakers who affirmed in court, and it's still something that happens.

@Punkatheart It's reminding me why I love it too. You've all been so lovely.

@snooksmcgee

Thank you for this, I've been thinking about Quakerism for a while as it quite appealed to me. You've inspired me to order a few books to read up on it. I don't think I would ever have the confidence to Minister though, Would it be ok to stay silent at every meeting? Or is that frowned upon?

One of the Advices and Queries is on this, so I've looked it up for you.

Do not assume that vocal ministry is never to be your part. Faithfulness and sincerity in speaking, even very briefly, may open the way to fuller ministry from others. When prompted to speak, wait patiently to know that the leading and the time are right, but do not let a sense of your own unworthiness hold you back. Pray that your ministry may arise from deep experience, and trust that words will be given to you. Try to speak audibly and distinctly, and with sensitivity to the needs of others. Beware of speaking predictably or too often, and of making additions towards the end of a meeting when it was well left before.

In practice, nobody is going to notice or mind if you don't speak in Meeting, and many people very rarely or never do speak. But the advice is right that you shouldn't assume that you never will. Part of an expectant waiting is being open to whatever arrives and being willing to accept it. (Another much-loved and much-quoted advice is to 'live adventurously'.)

I did jury service last year, and 6 out of 12 of us affirmed rather than swearing, and I'm fairly sure the other 5 weren't Quakers! I guess we're becoming a more secular society, and people feel less comfortable swearing on the Bible. I affirmed because I felt I would be a hypocrite to swear on a holy book I don't believe in. I think maybe once one person had affirmed, other people felt comfortable doing so.