I'm a Quaker AMA

[QuakerAMA]

I'm a member of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers). I'm British, so if I say "Quakers believe ...", I'll mean British Quakers. Quakers across the world can be very different, so do bear that in mind if you're in another country.

AMA.

Thanks for posting this - it is all very well expressed and answered. I am a fellow quaker but I don't believe in God. What I love about quakerism is that it listens, changes and grows through discussion and challenge. The idea of giving someone a second chance is also very quaker - my daughter went to a quaker school which was a wonderful experience.

Can anyone just walk into a meeting? If they just sit quietly.

Yes, absolutely.

Also, what’s a Quaker wedding like?

Quakers, Jews and Anglicans are the only religious groups in the UK who are allowed to perform weddings without a registrar. (There'll be a Quaker who has responsibility for performing marriages for the area). They're held as a Meeting for Worship. The couple sit in silence surrounded by their friends and family and the Meeting. Because there's no minister, they stand when they feel moved and make their vows to each other. There's a set Quaker vow, though there are slight variations to the wording you can make. I said: "I take this my Friend, DH's name, promising through divine assistance to be a loving and faithful wife, so long as we both on earth shall live."

You and your witnesses sign the certificate, then anyone who wants to can Minister. There's usually a lot of Ministry in Quaker weddings. People will wish you well, share advice, or stories about you. Sometimes the bride and groom ask people to share set readings or music, but not always. We didn't.

At the end, every single person present signs the certificate. Quaker wedding certificates are huge! (Though we also have a normal-sized official one.)

@NeverTwerkNaked I have Quaker ancestors too and I feel it’s passed down through my family as we are very quiet gentle souls. Hate all this noisey, pushy in your face new Christianity A few generations ago something happened and my family stopped going to the meetings. However we are very lucky to have the marriage certificate of my ancestors when they were married in a Quaker ceremony. The wedding was a simple service with a handful of loved ones.

What is the Quaker Business Method?

This is really interesting! I've only read your posts, OP so apologies if I repeat questions. Will be following your answers though.

How does the meeting come to an end? Is there a set time for each meeting or do people leave when they feel like it, and the last one left has to lock up or something?

Also do you have set days for your meetings or are your 'halls'(?) open for anytime?

Thanks for starting the thread.

@Punkatheart

Thanks for posting this - it is all very well expressed and answered. I am a fellow quaker but I don't believe in God. What I love about quakerism is that it listens, changes and grows through discussion and challenge. The idea of giving someone a second chance is also very quaker - my daughter went to a quaker school which was a wonderful experience.

@Punkatheart What's a Quaker school like, if you don't mind my asking?

This is really fascinating.

@MusicianTom May I also ask you your experience of the Quaker school? Enrolment, lessons, teachers, etc.

Hi Andthewinner...

Well the food is fantastic - because the quakers have long been linked with the food industry! It is run on the lines of tolerance, forgiveness and compassion. My daughter had terrible experiences at two other schools, then her father left and she needed kindness and understanding. The school was wonderful. The school also had a service - in silence of course. It is quite humbling to see so many adolescents in silent contemplation.

That said, the school only had 5% quakers and the rest from all faiths and no faiths - no not truly a faith school. It also is a private school - Leighton Park in Reading, where the music artist Laura Marling graduated. Very good on drama and the arts - as Jim Broadbent and Nathaniel Parker went there. The former was expelled!

Thanks for all the lovely comments - glad people are enjoying the thread!

What is the Quaker Business Method?

It's how Quakers make decisions. They do so in a Meeting for Worship for Business - there'll be a clerk or possibly two clerks who sit at a table, and everyone else sits facing them.

The item of business is presented to the Meeting - on Mumsnet it might be "AIBU to want to LTB?" (Though Quakers wouldn't call someone a bastard.) The OP would present the item, and there'd be a chance for questions. Then a Meeting for Worship would start.

People would hold the item in the silence and minister as lead. You wouldn't try to answer the question directly, but you might say something like "OP sounds really unhappy so it's clear this marriage isn't working." Or "It sounds like OP still loves her husband, and a lot of the problems seem to come from work stress." Or "I worry that asking them to get new jobs in a pandemic might not be realistic." Or "I worry that if she stays, the children will be negatively affected." Or "OP's husband seems happy to work on their problems - would counseling be an option?"
In AIBU, it's easy to see how this might descend into a fight, but in a Quaker Meeting, each point is recognised as equally valid and important. They don't contradict each other - they all need to be considered and given weight.
Once it's clear that a consensus has been reached, the clerks start to write a minute. Ministry should then stop and everyone silently upholds the clerks. They stand and read the draft minute - here probably that OP needs to get marriage counseling and try to address her and DH's job situation when possible. There's more silence, and people can suggest changes to the
wording, though not usually to the subject at this stage. Then they'd read the final minute and say "Is this minute acceptable, Friends?" And everyone would (hopefully) say "Hope so!" This is because you're supposed to be discerning the will of God, but obviously humans are fallible and you might have got it wrong.
When it works, it's incredibly powerful and moving. But when people don't treat it as a Meeting for Worship, it can be extremely frustrating.

What do you think about the Westboro Baptist Church

How does the meeting come to an end? Is there a set time for each meeting or do people leave when they feel like it, and the last one left has to lock up or something?

There are set times usually - a typical Sunday morning Meeting would last an hour. Each Meeting would have Elders would would take it in turns to run the Meeting, and they'd shake hands to end it.

Also do you have set days for your meetings or are your 'halls'(?) open for anytime?

Set times, same as any other church. Sunday mornings typically, although large Quaker Meeting Houses often have midweek Meetings too, which are usually smaller and quieter. Some Quakers prefer less Ministry, some prefer larger, noisier Meetings.

Then they'd read the final minute and say "Is this minute acceptable, Friends?" And everyone would (hopefully) say "Hope so!" This is because you're supposed to be discerning the will of God, but obviously humans are fallible and you might have got it wrong.

Thank you - I love this bit. "Hope so." Beautifully simple.

What do you think about the Westboro Baptist Church

If you mean, do I approve of the things they do?, no I don't. It's not a church I'd want to be a member of.

If you mean, do I think there is that of God in their members?, yes, I do. Though it's perhaps easy for me to say that, as I haven't been personally targeted by them. One of their ex-members wrote a book about how much of a revelation it was to realise that other people treated each other with kindness and support, and I think that's very telling.

@Punkatheart

Hi Andthewinner...

Well the food is fantastic - because the quakers have long been linked with the food industry! It is run on the lines of tolerance, forgiveness and compassion. My daughter had terrible experiences at two other schools, then her father left and she needed kindness and understanding. The school was wonderful. The school also had a service - in silence of course. It is quite humbling to see so many adolescents in silent contemplation.

That said, the school only had 5% quakers and the rest from all faiths and no faiths - no not truly a faith school. It also is a private school - Leighton Park in Reading, where the music artist Laura Marling graduated. Very good on drama and the arts - as Jim Broadbent and Nathaniel Parker went there. The former was expelled!

Thank you very much. Sounds really lovely. Never knew there was such a place.

I also like how you described your daughter's needs. So compassionate and sensitive. I'm glad she found a great place too.

@nosquirrels - me too. One of the Quaker Advices and Queries (42 suggestions for how to live) is 'consider the possibility that you might be mistaken', and I love that.

A lot of my relatives on my father's side were Quaker but I wasn't brought up Quaker, so I feel quite at ease with Quaker values but am not accustomed to going to meeting for worship.

One thing I wish I'd asked my grandmother is about how you know whether you feel moved to speak! I have gone to 20+ meetings for worship over the years but have never been sure about how to know if it's right! (vs whether it's just my inner ADHD chatter wanting to come out vs being moved by the spirit to speak.

How do you discern when you are moved to speak? And do you know of any resources or writing about this? (I have never spoken out of a sense of not knowing!!)

@NoSquirrels

Then they'd read the final minute and say "Is this minute acceptable, Friends?" And everyone would (hopefully) say "Hope so!" This is because you're supposed to be discerning the will of God, but obviously humans are fallible and you might have got it wrong.

Thank you - I love this bit. "Hope so." Beautifully simple.

Me too. I thought this was beautiful and quite moving.

@Punkatheart

Hi Andthewinner...

Well the food is fantastic - because the quakers have long been linked with the food industry! It is run on the lines of tolerance, forgiveness and compassion. My daughter had terrible experiences at two other schools, then her father left and she needed kindness and understanding. The school was wonderful. The school also had a service - in silence of course. It is quite humbling to see so many adolescents in silent contemplation.

That said, the school only had 5% quakers and the rest from all faiths and no faiths - no not truly a faith school. It also is a private school - Leighton Park in Reading, where the music artist Laura Marling graduated. Very good on drama and the arts - as Jim Broadbent and Nathaniel Parker went there. The former was expelled!

Used to work at a Quaker school - if I lived near one, and could afford the fees I would send my kids there because I did love the ethos of the place and emphasis on things like drama and the arts and creativity - not just academics. Would have been a perfect fit for a child like my DD2 - but sadly no money and wrong place!

But when people don't treat it as a Meeting for Worship, it can be extremely frustrating

Could you expand on what you mean by this?

Also...
and I love Quaker Meetings and Quaker decision-making

What's Quaker decision-making? Is it the same as the Quaker business you already mentioned? If so, then never mind answering. I already had this question from your earlier post.

I don’t have any religious beliefs, but respect others, however I have the most respect for Quakers. I’m a mental health nurse and I know that at a time that psychiatric patients were being locked up in the old asylums, treated appallingly and that a day out for families sometimes involved going to places like Bedlam, that the Quakers were opening places like the York Retreat and, you know, treating them with kindness and dignity.

[quote Andthewinnerislucky]@MusicianTom May I also ask you your experience of the Quaker school? Enrolment, lessons, teachers, etc.[/quote]
Andthewinnerislucky I went to the Mount School, in York. It's an all-girls school, and I think is the only single-sex Friends school remaining in the UK. It's over 20 years since I left, so things have probably changed, and there will be things I don't remember

It's a private, fee-paying school. When I was there, there were about 350 pupils age 11-18, and at that time around 90% were boarders, but comparatively few of the pupils were from Quaker families.

There was an entrance exam, which I think I had coaching for, and there were scholarships and bursaries available.

I don't have DC myself so am not really up to speed with the Year 6, 7 etc names. We started in 1st form at age 11, progressed to 5th form for GCSEs, and then had College 1 and College 2 for A-Levels (lower and upper sixth equivalent). We had two classes within the year group, each with around 20 girls, all the way up to 5th form. We were streamed for Maths, but not for any other subjects, I think.

GCSE class sizes varied between 10 and 20 depending on how many were taking the subject. A-Level classes were generally less than 10.

It's really difficult to know how good the teachers were - it was the only senior school I went to, and as I say, I don't have DCs. I passed all my exams, GCSEs with pretty good grades and A-Levels a very mixed bag, but that was my lack of aptitude, I think.

We had meeting for worship every morning, just 10 minutes on weekdays. There was a speaker, mostly a member of staff or one of the sixth form, and there was generally a theme for the week. They might play music, or read a poem. Sometimes it was religious, sometimes not. On Wednesdays College 1 and 2 went to meeting at the main meeting house in York, and all the boarders had to go to some manner of religious service at least twice a term on Sundays. .

I wouldn't say it was a forcefully academic education, but you were expected to work hard and fulfill your potential. Everyone was expected to go on to university, to study things like law or medicine.

It was a very feminist environment, without ever being stated. There was just an ethos that women were as intelligent, as important, as valuable as men, and women could achieve anything if they worked hard.

There were weird traditions and slang names for things, like boarding schools in books, but there was also a strong ethos of charity fundraising, social justice, and environmental awareness. Looking back, I think we were a bit virtue signally, and there was probably competititive righteousness.

Everyone took the 'Quakerliness' for granted - it was the whole ethos of the school, and it was just what you did - but we could be irreverant about it as well.

Thank you so much for this thread OP; it's fascinating to read.

@MusicianTom Thank you so much as well. What interesting posts to read.

I used to walk past a Quaker's meeting hall (or so) close to where I lived many years ago. Never thought much of it, just minding my own business. Glad I clicked on this post. Not sure what my expectations were but not necessarily this.

How do you discern when you are moved to speak? And do you know of any resources or writing about this? (I have never spoken out of a sense of not knowing!!)

I don't, weirdly, though they probably do exist - I'm not an expert on Quaker writings.

For me, it's a sort of antsy sense that this needs to be said. I tend to compare it to an extreme attack of conscience. Like when you know you really do need to apologise, or email that friend, or do that thing you promised you would do, but you really don't want to, but it keeps prickling and prickling at you until you do. I don't usually mind minstering in a Meeting I know, but if I'm at a big gathering or a strange one, I'd usually rather sit in my seat, but I keep getting pricklings telling me to stand up. TBH though, I don't very often get a thought in Meeting that I feel belongs to the Meeting and not to me, so it's rare enough that it feels important to do it. I'll hold it in my thoughts, and wait to see whether it keeps poking me, or subsides.