My husband is trans ftm AMA

[WhatOnFuckingEarth]

That’s about it. My husband is a heterosexual trans man and I’m a heterosexual cisgendered woman. We have two kids conceived via IVF (aged 2.5 months and 2 years). He is 5 years on testosterone and 8 years post double mastectomy, 3 years post phalloplasty, 2 years post final genital surgery.

Thanks @CuriousaboutSamphire for your response. I guess we disagree on that initial starting point- 'transwomen aren't women, they're a subset of men'.

I also disagree that transwomen have same privileges as women. Like any minority transwomen are more likely to encounter discrimination because they aren't 'the status quo'. Based on unofficial figures (because official figures aren't kept on this apparently) trans people are more likely to face violent crime in the UK than non-trans people. www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk
I think it is possible to acknowledge that transwomen are more likely to face discrimination than women as well as to acknowledge that women still face discrimination and less privileges than males.

Start with legislation. Maybe look at how many owmens crimes were committed by men! Think about how including the male body in female statistics will skew those numbers.
How will the skewing of stats by including crimes committed by transwomen in female crime stats impact women? How would it impact you or I personally in our day to day lives?

I must confess I'm not a huge twitter user anymore, but never seen anything on there where people have claimed transwomen are the most vulnerable group on planet or whatever other hyperbolic statement a PP made. I have seen posts flagging the problems/discrimination transwomen experience. How does a transwoman speaking out about their lived experiences of crime/discrimination/prejudice take anything away from other women speaking their lived experiences of crime/discrimination/prejudice etc? Again- can the 2 not exist side by side without one detracting from the other?

@Mummyoflittledragon
I obviously do not condone the disgustingly violent threats and comments JK received. It was also not condoned by TRA organisations like Mermaid- who made that clear in the open response letter they wrote to JK. Like any group there will always be wrong'uns- that doesn't represent necessarily all people who campaign for trans rights surely? In the same way not all Labour supporters are anti-semitic just because a minority have proved to be.

Women only areas are quickly becoming mixed sex with male only areas often remaining male only. Now this is something I agree with you is concerning and is something that everyone needs to be picking organisations up on when they are changing toilet/change facilities. If companies are going to rebrand certain change/toilet spaces as 'mixed sex' then both male and female change/toilet spaces need to be equally taken and given for this- not only the female spaces. Or even better- keep all the original 'gendered' spaces and provide a new, third space. That way there's no loss for anyone- only gain.

@Ineverdidmind

I find the notion that you consider yourselves to be in a heterosexual relationship incredibly sad. You are both female, one of you has altered their body to create the illusion of heterosexuality but ultimately you are both female. To not be able to own that is so sad, is our society really so homophobic that you don't feel that you can be honest about your sexualities? Its feels very offensive to me I'm afraid, though I know its not intended that way.

I feel like this too. Instead of treating the cause of gender dysphoria (the defining sex stereotypes that women in particular labour under) we treat the symptom with life altering surgeries that leave an adult incapable of sexual response and infertile. It makes me incredibly sad.

I don't think sexual reproduction and sexual desire and activity are the same thing at all @MonsteraCheeseplant Plenty of people (all of us) have sex without wanting to procreate. It is inherently enjoyable and usually quite important to a sexual relationship we are in with someone, for other reasons.

I have had times in my life where I couldn't be arsed with sex at all, and others where I couldn't get enough. @Ohfudgeit I think it all depends on what phase we are in at the time as to how important it is to us. The 'thing' can therefore ebb and flow in importance. Having young children is a fast libido dampener for sure!

But the thought of never having sexual sensation again ever because of something I did to my body is very depressing.

[quote WhatOnFuckingEarth]@Smallsteps88 Because his body looks like a male body I would have no reason to believe otherwise.[/quote]
So if he just self Id’d as a man without making any physical changes through hormones or surgery would you still be sexually attracted? I ask because one big issue currently is that some trans people believe that a lesbian is transphobic if she says she doesn’t find transwomen who haven’t made any physical changes to themselves so still present as a man.

@Ohfudgeit

Grool, you clearly don't understand what trans is, if you insist on describing him as a female.

You clearly don't understand what reality is if you think he's not female

@Mummyoflittledragon

Does he have terrible scarring from the removal of flesh to make his penis?

Can I just say, from someone that has scarring from surgery (presumably you would also call mine terrible) that this is really offensive and the thought of the judgements that other people are making about scars makes many people self conscious to the point of needing to keep themselves covered up. What you've said there is really hurtful.

@Smallsteps88 OP doesn’t have a partner.

OP has referred to her DH throughout the post and mentioned their wedding etc.

Look at you working so hard on your shitty little micro aggression - pathetic.

Thanks for offering to answer questions.

I've noticed a huge increase in discussion (and criticism) of trans people over the past few years. I was wondering if you have experienced this change in society and if so, how it has affected you and your family?

And in a related question, do you find the descriptions and assumptions about trans men commonly found on Mumsnet and by gender critical people bear any resemblance to the actual person your husband is?

@BendyLikeBeckham

I don't think sexual reproduction and sexual desire and activity are the same thing at all *@MonsteraCheeseplant* Plenty of people (all of us) have sex without wanting to procreate. It is inherently enjoyable and usually quite important to a sexual relationship we are in with someone, for other reasons.

I have had times in my life where I couldn't be arsed with sex at all, and others where I couldn't get enough. @Ohfudgeit I think it all depends on what phase we are in at the time as to how important it is to us. The 'thing' can therefore ebb and flow in importance. Having young children is a fast libido dampener for sure!

But the thought of never having sexual sensation again ever because of something I did to my body is very depressing.

I don't expect OP to go into major details but just because her DH can't be satisfied from his penis doesn't mean he can't be satisfied in other areas, a lot of men, women and maybe trans women and trans men like other areas being stimulated and that might be something they explore. I don't want OP to tell us of course but people have sexual relations in different ways and I'm sure they have found a way to make it sexually pleasuring for DH (apart from the intimacy etc).

Thanks for this thread OP, I think it's really brave of you to try and satisfy our curiosity.

I lean towards the GC end of things myself, I don't believe that people can literally change sex or that we should pretend they can, but I am really glad you and your husband are happy and that the surgery/transition has been successful for him. I am sorry that your mum is not accepting though, that must be hard.

Can I ask whether he has experienced discrimination or abuse for being trans?

[quote PinkyU]@Smallsteps88 OP doesn’t have a partner.

OP has referred to her DH throughout the post and mentioned their wedding etc.

Look at you working so hard on your shitty little micro aggression - pathetic.[/quote]
If you bothered to pay any attention you will see I have referred to OPs husband throughout this thread. My use of partner in the previous post was specifically in terms of sexual relationships. Her husband is her sexual partner. Not her sexual “husband”.

But look at you working so hard trying to shut me down without even bothering to read what I’ve said.

First of all, I would like to wish you both well. It is up to you to define your relationship as you wish. The strictest definitions of sexuality lead to illogical conclusions when transsexual individuals pass and meet their partners post-transition.

Has your husband found he encountered more success in the workplace since his transition?

Also, how do you think the division of housework is shared between you?

Leaving the trans issue out of it entirely, nobody gets to define someone's sexual orientation for them, much less based on the person they are currently having sex with or last had sex with. There are gay women whose sexual contact has all been with men. They are still gay. One of the case studies in a counselling textbook I have is of a gay man and gay women who were friends and unexpectedly fell in love and formed a serious relationship. They still considered themselves gay, and I fully understand and support that, not that it's any of my business or that they need validation from me. There are women happily in a relationship with other women right now who consider themselves straight people who made an exception for someone, and I get that too. There have long been men living or working in heavily male-dominated environments who form emotional and sexual relationships with other men but still consider themselves straight, and I get that too.

You do not get to decide another person's sexuality for them (especially not with this disingenuous bullshit about "just being curious/not understanding") when literally all you know about it is that the person's spouse was not born with a penis.

@BendyLikeBeckham yes of course but why do you think we evolved to enjoy and pursue sex?

@Ohfudgeit

When discussing sexuality it's important to specify someones biological sex.

Why is it important? Surely the glaringly obvious fact is that he has changed sex. Even if you don't think he has.

People can’t change sex; they change their gender. Hence getting a ‘gender recognition certificate’. It’s important to use the correct words and definitions and not conflate sex with gender.

@SarahTancredi covers what I wanted to say. Thank you for being so open about the sexual aspects. Of course people end up anorgasmic or completely give up on sex for all sorts of reasons (surgery, ADs, religious vows of celibacy) and that's fine. But this level of honesty is massively important when it comes to discussion of child/teen transitioners who I personally don't think can give informed consent to a medical pathway that leads to this outcome.

Of course it's totally different from OP's DH who embarked on this as an adult, and engaged in a gradual, carefully considered process.

This isn't to do with an obsession about genitals but everything to do with being absolutely open about surgical outcomes so people can make informed decisions.

@SeagoingSexpot

Leaving the trans issue out of it entirely, nobody gets to define someone's sexual orientation for them, much less based on the person they are currently having sex with or last had sex with. There are gay women whose sexual contact has all been with men. They are still gay. One of the case studies in a counselling textbook I have is of a gay man and gay women who were friends and unexpectedly fell in love and formed a serious relationship. They still considered themselves gay, and I fully understand and support that, not that it's any of my business or that they need validation from me. There are women happily in a relationship with other women right now who consider themselves straight people who made an exception for someone, and I get that too. There have long been men living or working in heavily male-dominated environments who form emotional and sexual relationships with other men but still consider themselves straight, and I get that too.

You do not get to decide another person's sexuality for them (especially not with this disingenuous bullshit about "just being curious/not understanding") when literally all you know about it is that the person's spouse was not born with a penis.

Well said.

Thank you op for posting this.

I don’t have any questions. As far as I’m concerned as long as you both love each other and are good to each other then it doesn’t matter if you are gay or straight. It’s literally no matter of anyone else.

Biological sex is defined according to the production of gametes. The ops dh has surgically changed his primary and secondary sexual characteristics, but unless he's suddenly started producing sperm he has not changed sex.

Thanks for sharing OP.

Where do you stand on the statement that 'humans cannot change sex'?

This is something I believe to be absolutely true whilst also recognising that humans have an immense capacity (mostly) to be compassionate and so have developed solutions for those who experience gender dysphoria.

I would always publicly respect your DH's pronouns, name, and het status while privately considering him to be lesbian - does this bother you? Other than this comment on an anonymous forum you wouldn't know.

Trans men seem to be viewed differently in this discussion/debate/development - do you think that is because they are socialised female?

Wishing you love and luck.

I think it would be great if someone could start a 'I'm GC- AMA' thread

I doubt anyone has time for that. But you could start a thread in FWR with good faith questions, or read the many past threads?

Start here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me