Im becoming a surrogate, AMA

[HotPotatoBlessMySoul]

Just had first transfer in hopes of becoming a surrogate for a friend.
Ask away.

Repeating Chew's question:

Do you think it's ethical to remove a newborn baby from its mother to hand it over to strangers?

how will you face your children in years to come and explain you gave away their sibling as if it was a batch of cupcakes?

It wouldn’t genetically their sibling though would it?

I don’t think I could do this but what OP is doing is a lovely thing, helping her friends be parents

@BunnytheBlueWhale The OP was adopted as a child - do you think her (adoptive) parents didn’t love her because she wasn’t genetically their daughter?

Sorry OP but I think you are being very cruel to this child and to your existing children. If you can give away one child, why don’t you just give one of your existing kids away? If I was your child I would worry about that scenario.

user1477391263

That study followed 30 children and spoke to them 3 times under the age of 11. That means and proves nothing, absolutely nothing. You’d have to follow them until a least middle age to have a decent picture of their mental health, and follow a hell of a lot more than 30. Children do not generally have the language or understanding to talk about their emotions in depth.

ToooRevealing

Outlawing surrogacy is a harder ethical question? It’s really really not. One is a selfish want from an adult, the other is an innocent newborn with no choice or control who will alone suffer the consequences. When it comes to ethical dilemmas this is one of the easy ones

The OP was adopted as a child - do you think her (adoptive) parents didn’t love her because she wasn’t genetically their daughter?

Who said anything about love? I was responding to the suggestion that OP was giving away one of her children’s siblings.
It’s not genetically her child’s sibling and it’s not as if she’s going to raise it at home with them as their sibling and then give it away. From the beginning it’s a baby she’s having for someone else.

I think the studies on psychological outcomes for surrogate children acknowledge that as a relatively new phenomenon we haven't got as much data into outcomes in later adolescence and adulthood so whereas kids seem fine we just don't know how they'll feel about lack of mother/mothers with donor egg or unknown father etc. We know adopted children can do well but then often feel compelled to find their biological parents as they become adults with agency and it seems fairly likely the same will be true for surrogates.

The same as the rest of us twin parents who planned on having just that one extra child

Except in a normal situation the children are legally the mothers from birth so she is responsible for them until such time as she can have them adopted. Whereas in a surrogacy situation the adoptive parents can just walk away if twins are born and never have to take any responsibility- leaving the surrogate legally responsible for two babies she hadn’t prepared to be caring for.

All the people who are being so aggressive in their questioning about “trauma”: do you actually know any children born from surrogacy?

Look, don’t get me wrong: on paper, I find the whole issue of surrogacy very, very vexed. I think all the issues proposed by posters here are troubling and mostly difficult to resolve. I’m the most ridiculous attachment parent - bf my babies for years and years, cosleep, carry them everywhere - and I adore being pregnant, so yes, I do find that thought of handing over a newborn baby very distressing. BUT I know four children born of surrogacy - two who are wholly genetically related to the parents and two who are genetically related to only one parent. In all cases, the children are some of the loveliest I know - funny, happy, doing well at school, loving, outgoing. The households are stable, loving, NORMAL - i often say that the parents of the children who are only 50% related are doing the best parenting job of any parents I know, I frequently find myself looking to them for examples. So I don’t know about this trauma. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, just because it’s not evident. But it’s not ruining these children’s lives, or blighting their personalities. I think we should maybe regard this as a grey area, that there are probably so many other factors at play here. Maybe we should at least be a bit more open-minded, especially if we don’t actually know any children who have been born from surrogacy...

Would this be a question you ask to someone who has announced a second or third pregnancy? If not, why not, as it applies equally?

A second or third pregnancy for their own family? A keeper? No-it’s entirely (and very obviously) different. A child of their own will be his to raise and care for- a child he has chosen to have and raise. A child he will love along with his wife. Not a child produced as a financial transaction for someone else. It’s a question I would ask of anyone taking on a very dangerous job or hobby. However in most of those cases the employer will have very good insurance and serious hobbyists generally insure themselves for dangerous sports etc too. In this case I highly doubt the clients have purchased lifetime income protection for the OP that will cover a lost career and a personal carer for her.

It’s not genetically her child’s sibling and it’s not as if she’s going to raise it at home with them as their sibling and then give it away. From the beginning it’s a baby she’s having for someone else
@BunnytheBlueWhale the OPs DC won’t give one shiny shit whether their sibling is genetically related. They will watch Mummy’s tummy grow. They will know there is a baby inside. They will live with the pregnancy for 9 months. They will know a baby is coming. Normal societal expectations and experience will tell them that this baby is related to them - it’s their Mummy’s baby and so are they.
So I repeat this is cruel and unnecessary to all the children involved. The OPs DC will wonder if Mummy might give them away too. They might also be jealous of baby - maybe they’d like to live with the lovely Uncles too. Baby might grow up resentful that they weren’t good enough for Mummy and were given away instead - and maybe they’d like to live with their siblings. And that’s if OP stays in touch as planned. What if the lovely uncles take baby and fuck off to the other side of the country and cut all contact? They would have every right to do so. How might that feel to the OPs DC?

OP please stop listening to all the lovely affirmations and wake up to the damage you are causing your family! If there’s any chance you are not pregnant yet, please STOP. You do not have to do this to prove you are kind or lovely. The truly kind thing is to care for your own kids’ mental health and security.

OP, with respect, it sounds like your surrogacy agreement (nb not a contact) is slightly superficial.

I can't believe you don't have a firm answer to the issue of a twin pregnancy, surely you have agreed whether they can opt for selective reduction or not? This is basic, basic stuff.

I'm also surprised at your answer about the child 'legally' going to the biological father if they split up. That's simply not true, there is no presumption in favour of a genetic parent in English law. The second father (psychological father whatever you want to call him) is of equal status to the first once the parental order is made. And until the order is made you have more authority than both of them.

Also I think you're being over optimistic about how 'above board' your expenses are. Given that you've mentioned a 'recommended amount', and that your 'expenses' are being worked out in advance what the intended parents are likely doing (like hundreds of others, egged on by lawyers and lobby groups who want to legalise commercial surrogacy) is presenting the court with a fait accompli in the region of £15k and putting the judge in the invidious position of having to retrospectively authorise it.

You've probably been told it's fine, everyone does it, and yes.. if you're lucky you might get a parental order reporter and a judge who is willing to nod it through - but if you're unlucky you can expect a LOT of scrutiny and a potential rollicking.

Do women undertaking surrogacy actually realise the huge risk to their life, their body and their future earning potential they are assuming?

Do the people asking them to be surrogates understand it? Like actually properly understand? Has someone sat and explained to them the potential loss of earnings they’re asking this woman to accept? A woman earning minimum wage becoming disabled at 30 has potentially 40 more years of earning to be compensated for. At £16k a year (currently) you’d need to dig deep to cover that. Or explained the physical reality of having to go through premature menopause due having your womb removed because it was so badly damaged during childbirth?

I could never find it acceptable to ask such a ‘favour’ of any other human being. I wouldn’t ask it of a dog tbh.

Expenses wise: can’t you just keep your receipts and reclaim the expenses once a month or whatever? Then it’s accurate.

It's not really AMA is it, more pick and choose the questions you want to answer

Yup, clues in the title, it’s called ask me anything, not answer everything.

A child of their own will be his to raise and care for

Not necessarily - the baby could die at birth. If we are going to talk vvv rare but possible scenarios, the baby could die and the mother die or be severely disabled. Would it be "worth it" to the father then?

However in most of those cases the employer will have very good insurance

Would insurance make it OK though? Your wife dying or becoming disabled and you becoming her carer?

Look I agree there are many ethical issues surrounding surrogacy worthy of discussion, but these questions along the lines of "so what music will you want played at your funeral OP, after you die in childbirth" are just goady and don't even address these issues.

Yup, clues in the title, it’s called ask me anything, not answer everything.

Of course no one can make you answer questions, but the general point is that you answer honestly and without restrictions or filters. Seems pointless to invite people to ask you questions, then refuse to answer those who take the time to do so.

Hardly use as they wish, it’s my body, it’s my choice. I believe that.

It's not your body your choice though. You said as much in your first reply

It’s their choice to terminate if they aren’t happy with any of the Down’s syndrome etc testing.

So to me, as an individual, I’ve chosen to do this for them, I choose to give them that choice about their child

Are you deliberately being obtuse about the attachment trauma to the baby? Fgs we leave pups with their bitch for 8 weeks. Does no one explain this to you all so you can prepare?

No. It’s difficult to write down the feeling. As soon as I write it you all think I’m committed and will quote it all back as written in stone. Even if I thought of a better wording after.

I’m not a dog and the baby isn’t expected to wander off and feed its self as it pops out, it’s going to its father.

I just asked you questions, that's all. You started an AMA on surrogacy.

........... I’m not paying any attention to user names. I don’t have all time in the world so just coping and answer as I can. So I can’t really respond appropriately.

Not necessarily - the baby could die at birth. If we are going to talk vvv rare but possible scenarios, the baby could die and the mother die or be severely disabled. Would it be "worth it" to the father then?

It would still be a child he had chosen to have in his family- not one that was to be sold. You can’t seriously think that is the same decision? The feelings relating to both children will be worlds apart.

Would insurance make it OK though? Your wife dying or becoming disabled and you becoming her carer?

I’m not talking about his wife dying. I’m talking about her staying alive but being disabled so she can never work again. And yes- of course insurance will help with that!! It will mean they can pay the mom bills every month and feed themselves and maybe even have a carer so the husband can still earn too. That’s why people buy insurance. Not a difficult concept. If it didn’t help people wouldn’t buy it.

but these questions along the lines of "so what music will you want played at your funeral OP, after you die in childbirth" are just goady and don't even address these issues.

Again- I’m not asking about her dying. I’m asking about her being left to live with some very serious issues and how her clients will compensate her for that. Has that been discussed? Because it needs to be. That’s not goady. OP could be left with hundreds of thousands of pounds of expenses due to doing this. Is she happy to cover that herself?

I believe two people who love each other and have a stable home with stable jobs are entitled to try for a family however they wish

Really? So they could just nick one out of a pram, then? The only difference to the baby is an theoretical notion of ownership and consent.

Yes that’s totally what I’m saying.... go help your self. 🙄
Genetically it is one of these men’s babies so I think that’s a pointless comment.

What if the couple fall out of love or one or both lose a job, then? Are they still entitled to have a baby at the expense of another human's health (possibly)?

Isn’t this the same for any couple?

Do you see any problems that may arise for a child who has been deliberately created in order to be removed from the woman who carried it at birth, and to be motherless?

So to me, as an individual, I’ve chosen to do this for them, I choose to give them that choice about their child

That's an awful lot of 'choices' to explain that you've given two men the right to decide what to do if the baby you are creating from your flesh and blood does not meet their standards.

Do they have the details for the egg donor?

Have you thought about expressing colostrum during the last few weeks of pregnancy? That way the baby would get the absolute best start in life, and wouldn't mean you'd "bring your milk in", so wouldn't actually have to breastfeed/express after birth. Colostrum is so very important, and yes many women do choose not to breastfeed at all, but if baby could get even just a few drops of colostrum it can make a huge difference to their lifelong health.
I'm sure you have already made your decisions, but if you get time to research third trimester colostrum harvesting, I think you may be inclined to give it a go. It's not time consuming, and all you need are some 2ml syringes and a freezer.

I think what you're doing is really admirable, and considered the same for our friends desperate for a baby. Unfortunately in the UK the laws around surrogacy are very tight and restrictive. Would love to be able to give this family the gift of a child, must be an incredible feeling.