Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AMA

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

I'm a midwife who works in abortion care. AMA

571 replies

GlitteryPoopooplop · 23/04/2019 19:58

Go ahead. I'll try and answer everything the best way I can. Sorry if this is boring (I love my job and can go on about it a bit.)!

OP posts:
slithytove · 27/04/2019 10:24

So just to clarify, it would never hurt the baby no matter what gestation?

When do their nerve receptors develop?

slithytove · 27/04/2019 10:25

And also to clarify, there is a chance feticide might not work first time?

What happens then?

Is there any effect to the baby in the interim before it works the second time?

Are aborted babies left whole? Does this depend on gestation?

DumbleDamn · 27/04/2019 10:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
GlitteryPoopooplop · 27/04/2019 10:32

@slithytove as I've said above, there is a lot of debate about the nerve receptors. I was talking about the current legal cut offs. I've not experienced feticide not working first time. It would work because we do it under scan, so we can watch to make sure it has worked.

OP posts:
Original poster
GlitteryPoopooplop · 27/04/2019 10:33

@DumbleDamn no. Not where I work.

OP posts:
slithytove · 27/04/2019 10:55

I feel like you are dancing around my question a bit

Abortion is allowed past 24 weeks for viability reasons I believe, and you personally believe there should be no limit on baby gestation. Past 24 weeks, would or could the abortion process hurt?

Is the baby left intact?

Original poster
GlitteryPoopooplop · 27/04/2019 11:06

Slithy, I'm sorry, I feel like you're trying to trip me up and I'm not sure what you're trying to get me to say. We perform feticide after 23 weeks to make sure that there is no pain or chance the baby could be born alive.

Is the baby left intact, it really depends on the gestation and the type of treatment. I'm not exactly sure if everyone in this thread might want to read in great detail about this but am happy to talk about it if a few people say they're happy to. (or via pm.).

OP posts:
Thelovecats85 · 27/04/2019 11:16

Sorry if this is a bit much but I'm interested to know how it all works.
So the pill doesn't terminate the baby it just induces labour and the baby dies during the labour, is that right. So it just causes a miscarriage?

What is the surgery? Can this effect chances of future pregnancy, or damage the womb?

At what point can you no longer have the pill?

I understand how the feticide works. Is that just for after 23 weeks and not necessary before? Could a baby be born alive with just the pill before 23 weeks?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 27/04/2019 11:20

My SIL had a very late abortion of a wanted pregnancy due to a serious genetic disorder. The baby was unlikely to survive and if he did would live for a year or two at best and with no quality of life. She felt unable to continue with the pregnancy knowing the foetus could die inside her at any time and became hysterical at the thought.

She had to give birth to the dead foetus vaginally. I imagine that's how it often happens with late abortions, slithytove.

She and DB took hand prints and held him. They had a funeral. I didn't attend because I was seven months pregnant and it would have been cruel.

DB and SIL are very religious. I was impressed when her priest told them that abortion in a case of foetal abnormality that extreme was ok by him.

Alb1 · 27/04/2019 11:23

slithy I doubt the OP actually nos the answers to all your questions, nobody nos for sure what what stage the fetus can feel pain, some parts of America insist pain relief is used after 20 weeks as they think it’s then, but the vast majority disagree with this. If specialist doctors can’t agree then how can the OP no everything? After 24 weeks though it’s for wanted babies that are unviable or too poorly, so they arnt going to be deliberately causing or allowing pain to the baby are they?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 27/04/2019 11:32

Foetuses aged 24 weeks or less do not have the brain connections to feel pain, according to a working party report published in 2010 by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG).

I don't know if there's been any further research done.

Sagradafamiliar · 27/04/2019 11:32

I'm shocked people still think babies are born alive after abortion in 2018. Yes, in the olden days they were. Now the process is much more humane (or as humane as can be depending what your stance is), the baby/foetus is not delivered alive.

Original poster
GlitteryPoopooplop · 27/04/2019 11:40

@Sagradafamiliar I'm not so shocked, there is a lot of mystery and myth surrounding abortion. That's kind of why I wanted to do this thread, to help people understand that we're not evil and we do want the best for people and do whatever we can to be kind.

OP posts:
Sagradafamiliar · 27/04/2019 11:54

I'm glad you've done the thread, if these are the kind of myths which endure then I'm not surprised people find the idea of them upsetting.

slithytove · 27/04/2019 11:59

I’m not trying to trip you up but I do want a definite answer if you know.

If the answer is you don’t know, then fine, that’s as much as you can say.

if it’s no, they never feel any pain because before 24 weeks there are not enough nerve receptors and after 24 weeks feticide is used which is pain free, then that’s brilliant.

If it’s yes, feticide causes pain, but before 24 weeks doesn't, then at least we know.

My key question is around the feticide. I would like to know that after 24 weeks, the baby doesn’t feel pain from abortion.

I’ve asked questions as it’s an AMA...

And I have another. After 24 weeks is an aborted baby classed as a stillbirth and registered in the same way a stillborn baby is? Is the cause for still birth noted differently?

slithytove · 27/04/2019 12:02

Alb1 i imagine no one wants to cause pain, but is that possible? Can a baby be aborted after 24 weeks without causing pain?

Because if it does, that doesn’t really matter does it? The decision / outcome is not altered regardless.

And one could argue that pain of abortion in those late cases which are currently legal, is less than the pain a non-viable baby will suffer once born. And therefore acceptable.

Original poster
GlitteryPoopooplop · 27/04/2019 12:04

The answer is, I do not know.

At the moment I don't work in a facility which performs abortion after 24 weeks so I'm not exactly up to date with everything. But yes, I'd imagine they'd be registered as a still born baby.

OP posts:
FuzzyLilac · 27/04/2019 12:04

They stop the heartbeat so i would think that there is no pain as the foetus is dead.

slithytove · 27/04/2019 12:06

I would not want to continue in those circumstances either prawn. The pain of a stillbirth (which is agony, I do know that) compared to losing a child you have had in your life, slept with, cuddled, kissed, fed - it’s nowhere near the same. Far better to suffer the loss before hand if it’s an option.

Which is why I support the law as is... I’d just like to know that the feticide process doesn’t hurt the baby.

I hope your SIL and DB have recovered as much as is possible, though I know there will always be a hole in their and your family.

slithytove · 27/04/2019 12:09

Yes I know it stops the heartbeat. I hope that in the process, the cells dying, the needle going in, the injection going in - I hope that doesn’t hurt.

Q After feticide is carried out, does labour have to be induced or does it come naturally?

In my stillbirth the doctors said that she died during the process of labour. But in others I know, labour started because the baby had died in utero.

thislido · 27/04/2019 12:09

slithy I was another poster who said I thought there should be no time limit. You seem to be linking that to the possibility of the baby feeling pain. My guess is that might make it unacceptable to you, but it’s hard to tell because you haven’t said.

I’ll answer the question in a different way. The OP has explained that the baby’s heart is stopped with an injection, to make sure that it is dead and therefore doesn’t experience pain during the abortion procedure. It seems quite possible to me that once you get to certain point of gestation the baby would, briefly, feel the injection as pain. Despite that, I still don’t believe there should be a time limit because I think that brief experience of pain is an acceptable part of terminating an unwanted pregnancy.

thislido · 27/04/2019 12:10

Sorry, cross post silthy

Alb1 · 27/04/2019 12:11

slithy yes the baby is still registered as stillborn (I no people through sands that have been through this procedure), the stillbirth certificate requires a cause of death like a death certificate does with a letter signed by the appropriate medical person, so I would imagine that would say termination for medical reasons, or similar.

Original poster
GlitteryPoopooplop · 27/04/2019 12:12

Slithy it would be started in late medical abortion, or the following day, if the woman chose it, surgical abortion would be performed. (D&E If you want to look up what this involves).

OP posts:
Alb1 · 27/04/2019 12:14

Also crosspost as I didn’t realise you’d have seen the stillbirth certificate, but friends who have experienced this did also have a stillbirth certificate I believe