I'm a midwife who works in abortion care. AMA

[GlitteryPoopooplop]

Go ahead. I'll try and answer everything the best way I can. Sorry if this is boring (I love my job and can go on about it a bit.)!

@Islaofsilly can you tell us all please where @Drogosnextwife has said that having an abortion before 24 weeks is sick and horrible, and should be illegal?

We are arguing that a woman should not be allowed to kill a baby at 40 weeks, just because she wants to.

They are not allowed so what is it you are actually arguing about?

fuzzy I don’t say it to paint anybody as anything. I say it because it IS killing a baby(after 24 weeks), what else is it? Do you have a mental image of a ball of cells all the way to term? My baby was very much a baby, lovely brown hair, perfect fingers and toes, looked the image of her big brother, and I legally had to give her a funeral and register her stillbirth because she was a real baby, an investigation was carried out because a medical person contributed to the loss of my baby. My baby died, not my ball of cells. Had I deliberately killed her I would have been charged with child destruction because I would have killed a baby.

To add I do also believe it’s a baby before 24 weeks, but the law is there for a good reason, and termination before then is different because the baby isn’t viable before then. But a termination of a healthy baby at term is killing a baby because what else could it possibly be?

I obviously need to step away from this thread as it’s become about an extreme view that’s clearly triggering for me, it’s just such a strange view that these babies arnt considered babies but yet once they’ve taken a breath they are, or are they in your eyes?

Alb

Please dont patronize me.
I have 4 DC I am fully aware of what a baby looks like throughout a pregnancy.

I am of course very sorry for your loss and can completely understand how hard my view is for you to understand.
However it is a view and opinion I am comfortable with and although I am not proposing a change in the law I still believe a woman as the right to an abortion at any stage.

@FuzzyLilac 🤦‍♀️

Very childish Little

When a woman is having an abortion with general anaesthetic what happens if she says she has changed her mind after having the premed?

It isn’t patronising, it’s pointing out the flaw with your statement that it isn’t killing a baby... so what is it? Of course we are both allowed our views, you are debating yours, and I mine... but I can’t see how it isn’t factual that it is ending the life of a viable healthy baby, that’s not an opinion is it? Therefore it’s not ‘painting’ you as anything, being anti choice etc. It’s a very hard debate on both sides, and I feel that refusing to acknowledge it’s killing a baby (again this is just at full term for no medical reason, thankfully hypothetically) is minimising the act.

I still think the OP sounds great at what she does, these women in these situations are lucky to have you. And I understand multiple abortions happen etc, it’s clearly not ‘ok’ as these women must suffer so much, but it’s right they have this choice and the support they need. It’s just the extreme view and the comments that suggest it’s almost scaremongering to think of these hypothetical babies as actual babies that I struggle with.

I'm not shutting anyone down at all. I'm saying I'm not going into great detail about how we support a very small minority.

I do believe the law should not dictate the rules alive abortion. Each case should be looked at individually and if that means a 40 week abortion happens then yes, I'd agree to it for the sake of the woman (and her existing family).

For the women silently reading this thread feeling like shit at some of the opinions, not everyone is as judgemental as Drogos who knows three women’s stories.

Oh FFS, where have I said that I judge women genuinely need abortions? What I have said that abortion at full term for ANY reason is wrong, woman who are in abusive relationship should have a better help than just being given multiple abortions (it's helping no one). Everyone judges everyone, do not claim you don't judge people. I agree that abortion is necessary.

@Alb1 I've said all along that they're babies. I would never never refer to a "ball of cells" as someone up thread did. Thank you for your kind words. X

I no you don’t think that glittery, your views about the whole thing must be very complex having to face these situations with women every day. And I can understand your point to some extent about the law being absolute, I absolutely do agree with the law being there as there would be far too much grey area otherwise. Do you no wether they ever allow term terminations for medical reasons if it’s due to the mental health of the woman? Like if the woman has developed such poor mental health she may commit suicide while pregnant anyway? Or is it literally just physically medical reasons?

I had a surgical termination under conscious sedation and received excellent care. As they were about to start the procedure, I said "thanks for doing what you do, it's so important even though I'm sure it's not the most rewarding area of medicine" and one of the staff replied that actually they found it very fulfilling. Do you think that's a common/universal view among your colleagues? Or are there those who do find it difficult or depressing? What do you think motivates the people you work with?

The BBC had a fascinating article a while back about some of the pioneer campaigners for legal abortion - did you read it? One of the female campaigners had asked the doctor who performed her abortion why he did them. He replied that a female patient, married with several children, had come to him pregnant and desperate not to be and he'd given her the usual spiel about loving the baby when it came etc. She killed herself that night and he had never forgotten his failure to listen to her. I think of that story a lot. It is so important to listen to women. I do remember the difference between the medical staff who listened to me and accepted that my concerns were real for me Vs those who told me that things would be fine etc.

@FuzzyLilac well that is the only thing that can be said to somebody who has supposedly read the whole thread and we are debating the statement the OP made. To which you joined in the debate and then respond with that comment?!

I’m glad there’s people like you working in the field, I’ve been fortunate never to have been in the position of needing an abortion but my big fear if I did would be the treatment and judgement. This sets my mind at rest hugely

No Little it was childish.

I have read the whole thread and frankly you believe yours is the only right opinion.

You said this We are arguing that a woman should not be allowed to kill a baby at 40 weeks, just because she wants to.
I responded with it isn't allowed so what are you arguing about?

You are arguing that people should not be allowed to hold the view that a woman can terminate at any stage.

No Little is arguing that it should not be legal which thankfully it isn't, bit there are people actively campaigning to make it legal and people on here who support them.
If you are someone who says ANY reason at ANY time, then you are actively supporting abortion at full term, and you do not agree with the law as it stands.

bit there are people actively campaigning to make it legal and people on here who support them.

I have not seen any such campaign so will have a google.

GlitteryPoopooplop I'm another who wants to thank you for your work and for standing up for these women in difficult circumstances.

I'd be interested to read about how you and your colleagues support younger women and girls. I know it's quite different to where and when I was growing up, but some of the extra factors that I saw with some girls I knew like potentially abusive parents and communities or a lack of reliable parents around in case of the rare complications, school involvement, and many of the horrible situations that have been mentioned that adult are going through, and I wonder what support is out there for girls in those situations in the UK.

I grew up in a very pro-life state, one of the ones now bringing in heartbeat and similar legislation to bring about challenges for Roe vs Wade, and all the talk of killing babies never actually helped any of the pregnant women or girls or resulting children there. My mother was one of many women I knew who had been communally forced into a marriage due to a pregnancy and was unable to abort and as a married woman could not adopt out children she did not want. I'm the result of a forced pregnancy and birth because abortion was inaccessible, I grew up with that knowledge and all it left me with is the effects of what she tried, guilt and a certainty that there is absolutely nothing I will ever do that will justify what my mother went through, and even more certainty that there is nothing my mother or any of the people who forced her in this situation and ignored it because 'sanctity of life and family' can do to make what happened to me justified.

I gladly support taking abortion being as out of the law as possible if it means not one more woman is forced into it, not one more person has to live knowing how unwanted their life is, and that every woman who has a very much wanted child who is not compatible with life or is dying in utero can make the best choice for herself rather than medical professionals hands being tied. There should be plenty of ways to keep professionals accountable and women cared for that isn't a legal time limit that will never be able to take all situations into account.

Not exactly your line, OP but I had a very late mmc.

It's referred to as a TOP in my notes. Everywhere.

Ok I was induced because sadly the pregnancy just didn't want to end naturally.

I guess I just wonder why they don't differentiate in these circs.

I absolutely don't judge anyone who decides to terminate by the way. It's just I see my procedure as more medically managing a miscarriage yet it's TOP all over my notes.

@BishopBrennansArse that's pretty annoying. I wonder why. I can see why that would upset you. I think the wording is so important. I always find it really upsetting for women with wanted pregnancies who lose them at say 23 weeks that it's referred to as a miscarriage (or even worse, the medical team "spontaneous abortion").

Why are people trying to trip up the OP/question her on other people's lives and choices?! What use is it telling her that her patients could just get the MAP or use whatever choice of contraception you've plucked out of thin air?
Some women DO find themselves in situations repeatedly and thank fuck they are able to have access to safe abortions, it's what the clinic is there for, it's what the law is there for, and thankfully it's why decent empathetic, understanding people like the OP are employed in their roles.
Some people really are hard of thinking especially the ones who are pretending to be pro-choice but actually aren't as they think they can put their own terms and conditions on these 'choices' and clearly haven't been in the situation themselves as the misinformation re doctors appointments show!