I’m a gay man. AMA

[EcoCleaner]

Gay, spent much of my formative years on “the scene”, Irish catholic family on my side and Muslim in-laws.

Ask me anything.

[EcoCleaner]

Smotheroffivefourthreetwoone it does seem to have nose dived down the trans route. I did say ask me anything though. I can answer the questions as best as I can and based on what I know. It doesn’t make me or anyone else right or wrong, I’m just answering as honestly as I can based on my own experiences.

[Smotheroffivefourthreetwoone]

There doesn't seem to be any space for 'live n let live' going on in this hate debate.

[donquixotedelamancha]

I'd say some of the "a trans woman is not a woman" sentiment in this thread is more transphobic than anything I've said tbh.

I think neither statement is transphobic. When feminists say 'a trans woman is not a woman' they are speaking about biological sex. I know a transwoman who says the same thing.

There are people who would claim any man who says the words 'I am a woman' becomes a woman and want the law to change to reflect that. Personally I think those people are appropriating the experience of transsexuals and using it to attack women's rights.

Hence why I asked about your definitions- not to be snide, but genuine curiosity.

But I've not had the best experience with them in the past, having had a few black eyes and been spat at in the street.

May I ask where you live? This surprises and saddens me.

[GhoulishGremlins]

Me too! Just wanted to say hi

[EcoCleaner]

PerverseConverse
Because penises turn me on and vagina’s don’t. Bit blunt but not sure how else to answer that.

[dinnafashsassenach]

Do you have sympathy for a man who married a woman knowing full well secretly he was gay to try and 'conform'. Produces 3 children makes the wife feel like the happiest woman in the world then makes an announcement and is off? Who is the victim in this situation?

[EcoCleaner]

donquixotedelamancha that’s interesting and angle I hadn’t thought of, thanks for that. As I say, it’s down to experience. One friend in particular who is female to male trans would be highly offended if I thought of him as anything other than male and made comments along the lines of “you’re not a real man”.

I’m in Yorkshire. I was once attacked on a bus at 5:30 in the afternoon. Although the other guy was drunk and couldn’t really do much damage. I was also spat at on a night out in Leeds City Centre for no other reason other than the culprit assumed I was gay because I was the only male in a group of girls.

[Growingboys]

Well said BlancheM

A man who decides he is a woman is not a woman.

[PerverseConverse]

Ok so you aren't turned on by a vagina, fair enough, but if transwomen are women and transmen are men then how does that work if all are equal? They obviously aren't all equal in your eyes.

[EcoCleaner]

dinnafashsassenach absolute sympathy. I know someone that happened to. Who is the victim? Both in some ways. The man is a victim but to his own feelings.

I get the struggle to come out and the need to conform, I really do, but equally I couldn’t lie to another person like that for so many years. So the wife I would say is the bigger victim. She’s been lied to and her relationship and family is now in tatters. Battling your own demons is one thing but it’s important to not damage someone else’s life in the process.

[userblablabla]

Further proof that mumsnet can turn any thread into a trans bashing thread!

[surferjet]

Hi op.
Do you think there’s still stigma around HIV? Even within the gay community?

[EcoCleaner]

PerverseConverse if i’d said to you that I wasn’t attracted to people with ginger hair, does that make them less ginger? Certainly doesn’t mean they should be treated differently because of how I feel about an element of their physique.
I suppose it’s that initial physical element and sexual attraction. If a trans man introduced himself to me as a man and I knew they were trans, I wouldn’t think they’re less of a man for it. And vice versa with male to female.

(FYI I totally love ginger hair)

[EcoCleaner]

surferjet yes, tragically. Having witnessed it first hand. Human beings really can be fucking awful to each other.

[RatUnholyRolyPoly]

Further proof that mumsnet can turn any thread into a trans bashing thread!

Yup. You would have thought hiding a whole section of the site would be enough, but apparently a gay man is exactly the person to interrogate on the subject. What with them being, you know, gay. That means the most interesting thing about them is what they think about trans people, right? What with them sharing an acronym and all.

[Smotheroffivefourthreetwoone]

OMG user trans bashing , and that's pretty inflammatory comment, did you come here looking for a fight, as although I don't admit to knowing much about it, I'll be damned if I'll be called hate labels.

[PerverseConverse]

So you can't really answer that can you. Just goes to show.

[donquixotedelamancha]

Jeez. I've been out on the gay scene in Leeds and always thought it was really friendly. Not gay, so obviously not the same, but even as a youngster I've not seen homophobia like that. In general I think the last 20 years have been incredible in the way we've grown up about homosexuality.

One friend in particular who is female to male trans would be highly offended if I thought of him as anything other than male and made comments along the lines of “you’re not a real man”.

I'd rip someone who said that a new one. The discussion on here is not about how people should be treated in general life. I don't think anyone will disagree when I say: transgender people should be treated with respect and supported to present however they wish. The discussion is around women's spaces (like prisons or refuges), women's sports etc.

[Whatsnewwithyou]

I think the reason people are asking a gay man about trans issues is that stonewall has done such a "good job" of convincing people that gay rights and trans rights are equivalent when they're not. It actually makes me quite angry that the gay rights movement had been co-opted in this way.

OP I don't think I've run into anyone on mumsnet has a problem with either gay people or "traditional" trans people who just want to quietly live their lives in the gender of their choosing without hurting anyone else. The issue is that some predatory men are using the trans label as a way of invading female-only spaces for nefarious purposes. I'm talking about changing rooms yes but also dorm rooms, women's prisons, over night camp at scouts...young and vulnerable females are being put at risk because these men are pretending to be trans to gain acres to these spaces. Have you read about the Karen White case? There are many men using the trans label to live in women's prisons - many of these are sex offenders with fully-functioning penises. Surely this cannot be right? www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-45825838

[Unicyclethief]

Actually Rat I think it is interesting to ask gay people their views on trans issues, seeing as how trans ideology can be very homophobic.

[EcoCleaner]

Bottom line folks, I think it's important to be respectful to other people. I wouldn't call myself pro-trans, just pro-people. I wouldn't ever think that a trans man or trans woman is any less of a man or woman. I would respect them for who they are and how they identify themselves to me.

Personally, transgender is not a feeling I can relate to. I'm happy with my body (apart from my muffin top!) and my gender. But I appreciate that some people aren't. I've met many trans people and have had trans friends over the years, so I can only answer trans related questions based on who I've met and the discussions we've had. I obviously can't speak for everyone.

Could I feel attracted to a trans man? Possibly. That would depend on him and where he was at with his transition. And how far he wanted to take it. If you boil it down to the physical element of attraction, I think he would need to be post-op. I like cock and manly chests (surprisingly for a gay man, eh?). I've never been in that position though, so who knows. If it ever happens, I'll report back.

[Smotheroffivefourthreetwoone]

I think it's different comparing that way. Ginger hair for example, doesn't make them any less of a 'person', not doesn't make them any less brown/blond/whatever.
The term 'less' - bit controversial in this context. Certainly not 'the same as' born male, different biologically, despite adaptions. That male is somehow 'higher' or 'more than' no, but not the 'same as', 'different to'.
Accepted as, legally.... If gender reassigned, I.e. identifying as.

But, ducking out of what was interesting thread, thank you for your honest answers and offering yourself up to the slaughter

[Bombardier25966]

Good on you @EcoCleaner for remaining so polite and dignified to those that clearly have an alterior agenda.

[donquixotedelamancha]

That means the most interesting thing about them is what they think about trans people, right?

Yeah, coz they all have the same views. Hey OP, what's the gay view on Brexit?

FYI I totally love ginger hair

That's too far, you'll be wanting to let them marry next :-)

[EcoCleaner]

The issue is that some predatory men are using the trans label as a way of invading female-only spaces for nefarious purposes.

Of course I think that is disgusting and I wasn't aware of that case, so thanks for that. I do understand where you're coming from. Maybe I'm too naive for seeing the best in the people. My experience of trans people couldn't be more different. But it seems the issue is not directly with trans people, but with people using our more accepting society to commit attrocities, am I right? Correct me if I'm wrong. Could the same be said for race and religion? Whereby a person brands all Muslim's as terrorists because of a small few committing horrible acts. Are people ever going to truly be treated equally whilst these things are happening? Who knows.