I’m a gay man. AMA

[EcoCleaner]

Gay, spent much of my formative years on “the scene”, Irish catholic family on my side and Muslim in-laws.

Ask me anything.

[TwistedStitch]

Why do you find it 'shocking' that some women don't want to share intimate spaces with the sex that commits 98% of all sexual violence? I guess being unable to comprehend why that would be an issue is an example of the male privilege you deny having.

[Branleuse]

Cotton ceiling !

[TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross]

Do you not feel that it is hypocritical to declare that transwomen are women and transmen are men but that you wouldn’t have sex with a pre-op transman because you’re not turned on by vaginas? Do you honestly not see how very transphobic that makes you in the current climate, despite all your virtue-signalling?

[Unicyclethief]

No, shrieking, that was to the OP, who asked if women would object to trans men in women only spaces.

[LuckyDiamond]

I’m straight and don’t even know that many gay people but even I know that gay does not equal bum sex.

What a strange thread. Shouldobe surprised, MNers are obsessed with bumholes.

My question for op is do you look forward to a time when no one cares (unless they want to sleep with you) what your sexual orientation is. Coming out or being outed can be a thing of the past. Do you feel this time is coming?

[Shriekingbanshee]

If trans man, with physical changes, male lowered vocal chords range and muscular frame etc, would be scarey, not sure why you would say that. It's similarity to men that's the issue, as well as ability to use penis to dominate and intimidate women with predatory behaviour, for me, and others.
Women and DC in refuge will often freeze or be too scared to say anything so how is this OK to force upon the vulnerable

[Shriekingbanshee]

Was that last to me uni I was talking bout trans woman who is just completely male. Nothing female about him, just he says he is. Sounds looks and is male, but calls himself female when clearly isn't female. Maybe I miswrote something?

[Unicyclethief]

I don’t think there are many women who would have a problem with a trans man in women’s spaces because they are women.

[Shriekingbanshee]

2-3 women are killed by men every week, women are groped, harrassed, unequal even in current day workplace, and every other setting. Male aggression is very prevalent. Despite being approx 50% of the population they are still treated like a minority and there is shockingly high number of misogynists, other hate crimes are crimes but women hating not.

There is a very real threat to women with the self I'd twaw rule. I am not sure why anyone wouldn't see that. There are men with penises inside women's refuges, a male voice heard in a place where women are absolutely terrified as a result of their experiences is something no woman or her DC should have to hear in a place of recovery.... You see they don't sound like women, this causes women and their pior DC to suffer over and over. This is why they are different, they are fundamentally different, to a woman and little dx battered by a male they look and sound exactly like a male!!!! Tell me you can understand how traumatising that is, that you have a heart with compassion to see this? Never mind all this bollocks trying to say they are the same, I don't mind extending the same respect, no issue, but you just cannot pretend their are actually the same.
I wish ppl could try this for themselves and feel the horror of walking into a dark corridor, wearing night attire and coming round the corner into the figure of a man walking the corridors of a supposedly sage space for women who are terrified of the male associations. Please tell me you can actually extend yourself sufficiently to understand how horrific that might be and that it's simply not the same as bumping into another female, hearing a female voice, realising there's no horrific associations or threat of sexual assault.

[EcoCleaner]

I'm going to acknowledge the trans questions as a collective now, cause I feel it's going round in circles a bit now. Frankly, I find the notion that "I don't want to share a changing room with a trans female because of the risk of a sexual assault" pretty shocking. That's pretty much like saying "I don't want to be in the same place as a Muslim person incase they have a bomb". It's tarring everyone with the same brush. Like trans people don't have enough to deal with!

At no point have I ever said that I'm some sort of expert on trans rights or the emotions around it. Infact when I asked, I expressed how hard it was for me to understand those feelings, given that I've always been 100% comfortable with my own body. BUT I do understand the principal of it, from having had trans friends and spoken to different kinds of people. Any comments or answers I've posted have been based on my own experiences and the people I've spoken to in my own life. I've said that multiple times and I don't see how I could possibly answer them any other way.

I will continue to support trans rights and will continue to respect and acknowledge any trans females as I would any other female that I meet. I don't get why you think I should treat them any differently, or why they should be treated any differently by anybody else. And if that offends you, then it's really not me you should be calling transphobic. Look in the mirror. I notice none of you have expressed any concern with female to male trans - bit sexist, don't you think? Like a female to male trans person wouldn't have any difficulty going to a female prison or female changing room. Imagine a post-op trans female to male walking into the ladies toilets! Would you stand for that? This isn't just about women, but clearly some people have their blinkers on.

Anyway, I'm not saying anymore on the trans debate. It won't get anybody anywhere apart from more circles.

Moving on...

GhoulishGremlins I never understood that ridicule. As a minority group, I always been of the opion that we should support eachother. I get personal preference - a friend one said to me that he just couldn't find himself attracted to quite feminine/camp men. Not in a rude or derograty way, he just couldn't. Which is totally fine 'cause he never thought any less of anybody else, it was just a preference. But there are gay men who are dead set against even being friendly with camp men. I'll never understand why though.

[Shriekingbanshee]

I can see his view is highly controversial, which I believe he is circumventing.

You do seem to be withholding either deliberately or just not understanding eco, but stating it simply when clearly its not.

I cannot 'know' your intent but it is coming across as evasive where's that AMA thread on clairvoyant

[EdgyMcNervous]

No questions. Just a thank you to @EcoCleaner for being brave enough to start the thread, give honest thoughtful answers and remain courteous in response to the relentless barrage! Wish you and your fiancé all the very best.

[GhoulishGremlins]

From one to another - what do you think of gay guys who ridicule those that aren't masculine? Why do you think there's so much hate within the community? As if you're a lesser person if you're too feminine.

Would just be interested in your thoughts on this.

[justilou1]

@EcoCleaner -We’re in Australia. Last to achieve equality. (So shameful!!!) Have lived all around the world though. Idiots and bigots are universal, unfortunately.

[Shriekingbanshee]

Thanks for reply eco buts theres a huge difference between how you would treat everyone with respect wrt their choices, but theres another layer now in the rights of women being eroded. Do you recognise this, and acknowledgd that there are two separate issues going on? One is how you would respect them, but stating twaw is now an altogether different statement regarding rights. You keep answering how you view them instead of acknowledging there is a much deeper issue. It's clear that is now an antagonistic expression of your view.

I think you might take a different view if the impact was to erode a gay man's rights, increasing their risk of assault by homophobic men? You can see that can't you?

[BlancheM]

Perverse, yup. I think the lack of awareness of male privilege could be seen as contrived especially when OP slips in misogynist terminology like 'bleating'.

[EcoCleaner]

justilou1 it is very refreshing to see the acceptance in the next generations. I think there's always going to be homophobes and transphobes and misogynists and racists in the world but at least as time goes on, we're drowning them out and these days they look stupid rather than being considered normal.

Though I don't think Brexit helped. A read a quote about brexit that really stuck in my mind and I can't remember where it was from. It was something like "the problem with the result is that it's made the 1% of society with their outdated thinking feel like the other 99% agrees with them". Almost like it's legitimising their hatred. Although of course we all know that that's not the reason why everyone voted leave.

[EcoCleaner]

Smotheroffivefourthreetwoone no, it wasn't an intentional choice of words, just the only way that I could express how I felt towards trans women. Rightly so, some have called me on that and I get where a lot of ladies are coming from with it, but as a gay male particularly, it would be wrong of me to approach, treat or think of a trans female as anything other than female. So I maintain that, for me, a trans woman is still a woman.

PerverseConverse male privilege? So you think because you're female that you're more hard done to and I've some how had it easy? Have you not considered that as a gay man, I have faced my fair share of discrimination, denied opportunities and abuse? Likely more so, even to this day I am still not considered to have a "conventional lifestyle", whatever the hell one of those is. You seem to think I've had life handed to me on a plate because I'm male. Well you're wrong. So before you bleat at me about male privilege, just considered that I've had just as much of a fight on my hands as you have, all stemming from the same source.

weewillywinkie no, I'm not a lawyer. I work in HR within the healthcare industry - 2 areas that are largely female led too, oddly enough. It has worked in my favour over the years to know employment law though, so could be that elements that's coming through in my writing?

[justilou1]

@EcoCleaner - I thought of you today. I have two daughters and a son. My poor guy is technically the middle child, but he is also a twin. (He and his sister are 12). He kinda came out today - in a way. He said to me today “Mum... I have a bit of a problem. I’m pretty sure I’m straight, but I really don’t like girls!” I thanked him for keeping me in the loop, and checked with him that he knew that it really wouldn’t matter to me if he wasn’t straight. “Yeah Mum! As if that’s going to affect you!!!”

So even though this is a micro-peep into the future, I thought that maybe this might give you a little hope that maybe the with the next generation it’s going to be less of a “thing” after all.

[weewillywinkie]

OP, are you a lawyer? You write like one (and have answered the questions like one) 😉 Wishing you all the best.

[Smotheroffivefourthreetwoone]

He purported his views as very surface, and I took them as such, and queried all the antagonism, and yes he remained stolid in the face of that, but now he's been asked straight; he he's done is only repeat without further explanation

[PerverseConverse]

Smotheroffivefourthreetwoone you'd only get a circular non-answer anyway!
This thread has been quite illuminating and I wonder as to the motivation too. Gay man comes on to predominantly female forum and displays a fair few misogynistic and male privileged opinions whilst remaining calm and dignified in giving circuitous answers to questions he can't logically answer I could think of no questions to ask until the deeply ingrained misogyny reared its ugly head.

[Smotheroffivefourthreetwoone]

Well now that my direct question on OP intent has not been replied to, makes the thread a bit of a farce.

[Smallhorse]

Great thread. Thanks for starting it.