I wear a niqab! AMA

[JamTea]

Hi everyone,

I am a regular MNer and NC'd for this :). As background, I have a successful career in tech, I am a Muslim and I wear niqab too. Since Boris's comments, I've seen quite a bit written on MN about burqa and niqab, and thought it may be useful to answer any questions people have in relation to niqab. I also know a large number of Muslim women and have lived in various Muslim communities, so can probably speak from my experience and relay other people's experiences too.

Just as a note: I don't know any women in the UK that wear burqa and I have never seen anyone wear a burqa in real life. The difference between niqab and burqa is illustrated here: cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/scarf-651554.jpg

@whataboutbob I agree with you. Despite the Op very kindly offering to answer questions on why she wears the niqab, I don't think any of us feel we have any clearer an understanding of that choice than we did before. The niqab (an Arabian garment) is currently being worn by third generation British young women of South Asian descent, whose ancestors never wore it. From the outside, it is genuinely perplexing.

Thanks @Genevieva. I agree it was kind of the OP to come on and volunteer her personal experience and despite pleas by Mumnset the thread has become a magnet for non Muslims venting their concerns. That’s probably because as a practice niqab wearing is just too problematic for a large proportion of the population, for all the reasons outlined in posts above.

@whataboutbob With something controversial, it should be expected that people will express their concerns to see whether the OP is willing to engage with them. What isn't OK is when someone purports to be someone they are not to fabricate an alternative narrative. That was irritating and derailed the thread for a bit. Nevertheless, I think that there have been some interesting discussion points raised on this thread. The universalising principle is one of them. It is also reasonable to ask how the OP reconciles the choice to wear the niqab with the fact that women elsewhere in the world have had it imposed upon them by men and have suffered in their attempts to challenge this imposition. Nor is it unreasonable to ask the OP to express her reflections on the fact that she is choosing to wear a garment that makes some people around her feel deeply uncomfortable and which some people see as a political statement, perhaps even a rejection of western values. We didn't really informative answers to any of those questions.

What isn't OK is when someone purports to be someone they are not to fabricate an alternative narrative.

Genevieva, you don't even know if OP is real or not. For example, she could be he. She could also be real but it's hard to believe everything written on line.

I’ll have to assume she is genuine, I only read her first posts and the last ones and didn’t follow the whole thread. Quite apart from the ( for me) evident feminist argument against the niqab, there is also the fact that it is not good for community cohesion. Choosing to hide your face and wearing garb that is a visible barrier between yourself and others, being able to see while not allowing others to see you is in my view not acceptable in contemporary European society.
Apart from that, I have some sympathy with the Islamic disapproval of the excessive nature of some western dress, and the apparent sexual promiscuity / excesses of behaviour on show up and down the country every Friday and Saturday night . I don’t have a problem with Muslim women covering their hair or choosing to downplay their physical shape when in public, because they are still identifiable as individuals and a relationship ( professional/ friendship) with others outside of the family is still possible.

IMO. All I have here in my heart, after reading the OP's posts is someone who is on a spiritual path. Someone who is researching and seeking something.

TBH. It doesn't bother me what they are wearing. Spiritual seekers all over the world and for generations have worn garments or jewellery to adorn themselves. Buddhists wear orange robes, Sikhs wear turbans, church members wear habits, robes, hats, etcetera, etcetera.

The truly spiritual go beyond the garments, beyond the body mind to see the God consciousness we all are.

Strange thread .. don't normally have people wanting people to ask questions about their clothes .... I'm wearing my new Hush joggers ... want to AMA ?

@Onecutefox the shift in syntax raised considerable doubt in my mind, but I agree we can't know for sure.

I’ve been finding it difficult to see the veil as a symbol of feminism and empowerment.

The verse from the Quran quoted earlier by JamTea (Verse 33:59)

O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

(Pickthall translation)

is further elucidated in a later commentary:

Slave women in Medina used to be told certain things when they went outside. (One night) some foolish people accosted a group of women and bothered (or hurt) them because they thought they were slave women, but they were actually free women. Because of this, the Prophet ordered the believing women to cast their cloaks upon themselves, so they would be distinguished as free women, and known from the slave women, and not bothered.

— Tafsir Abd al-Razzaq al-Sanani

The solution offered to the original problem of male harassment just seems strange from a modern feminist perspective. The free women are told to wear a symbol of immunity from unwanted attention, whilst the slave women are tacitly thrown under the camel caravan.
The men just carry on as before, except that their permitted quarry has been reduced in number via the donning of distinguishing attire by the higher status women.

What I would like to understand is whether there is a danger of creating a two-tier society of veiled women who are respected and left alone and non-veiled women who are seen as a legitimate target, even in today's society, if enough men buy into the original concept of a female hierarchy indicated by mode of dress.

Would it not have been better if the revealed verse had called for all women - slaves and free women alike - to come together as a sisterhood to insist on the root cause of the problem being addressed, namely that of harassment by men?

@OutwiththeOutCrowd and all these verses do is suggest a choice based on existing norms within a male-dominated, class-segregated society. Women in rich families didn't need to go out to work, so could wear long cloaks, whereas slave women needed to wear clothing that allowed more freedom of movement. It is the same rationale that has resulted in certain cultures preferring paler skin. This was the case in Europe before Coco Chanel made a tan popular and continues to be the case in many other parts of the world today, where there is still a huge demand for skin bleaching creams.

@OutwiththeOutCrowd you’ve hit the nail on the head. Veiling does not resolve the problem of sexual harassment, it just displaces an even greater sexual frustration onto those women who are deemed not to be respectably dressed. Unless you go for the “ final solution” a kind of Margaret Atwoodish world where all women are hidden behind a tent as soon as they leave the home. It’s actually a non solution.

That fits perfectly with CandySugar' account of her hsuband controlling her phone, doesn't it? I believe her. You should be ashamed of yourself if you don't.

Completely agree.
I'd like to hear from MNHQ why she was banned?

CandySugar said she didn’t know where to go for help, and in my opinion the OP was very aggressive to her about naming her daughters school etc. Real double standards on this thread

Yep.