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Original poster

I wear a niqab! AMA

838 replies

JamTea · 12/08/2018 13:34

Hi everyone,

I am a regular MNer and NC'd for this :). As background, I have a successful career in tech, I am a Muslim and I wear niqab too. Since Boris's comments, I've seen quite a bit written on MN about burqa and niqab, and thought it may be useful to answer any questions people have in relation to niqab. I also know a large number of Muslim women and have lived in various Muslim communities, so can probably speak from my experience and relay other people's experiences too.

Just as a note: I don't know any women in the UK that wear burqa and I have never seen anyone wear a burqa in real life. The difference between niqab and burqa is illustrated here: cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/scarf-651554.jpg

OP posts:
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LukeCagesWife · 14/08/2018 12:59

Cross post - what would be the danger if it was a man? That he would have a bomb strapped to him or something?

I don’t think men are in the habit of wearing Niqabs - I believe there has been 1 crime reported where men wore them which is nothing really.

Original poster
JamTea · 14/08/2018 13:00

@PurpleCrowbar I've answered that question above:

It is a safeguarding issue because if the school is doing this (forcing 5 year olds to wear to niqab - which is NOT in any culture nor religion), it suggests something else may be going on, and it rings alarm bells. This does need to be investigated for the safety of the children attending.

OP posts:
PurpleCrowbar · 14/08/2018 13:04

Yes, but schools oblige pupils to wear unusual clothing all the time.

What's so different about insisting on a niqab?

This is my point. If it's such a lovely comfortable sensible thing to wear, why is it suddenly worrying if it's part of a school uniform?

LassWiADelicateAir · 14/08/2018 13:06

So why shouldn't a school impose niqab wearing, if they wanted? Unless it's a repressive item of clothing which no one should be obliged to wear (which fugly trousers probably aren't! )

It is a repressive item and sends out a horrible message about women's bodies.

Bluntness100 · 14/08/2018 13:11

The argument makes no sense op.

You tell us wearing niqab takes you closer to god, you will be rewarded for this, it makes him happy, as such, if someone genuinely believes this, then they would actively want their little girls to wear them, as they would believe this was good for them.

In addition parents have a choice of where to send their kids to school.

It makes no logical sense that you think it raises alarm bells and something else is going on that thr children will need safeguarding from, if wearing the veil is what educated females do and because it brings them closer to god etc. For anyone who believes this, then any school that enforces it, and any parent who sends their child their is doing the best for their child. Like making them eat their vegetables.

Pornstarlips · 14/08/2018 13:12

Bluntness you are coming across like a total bully. You are trying to discredit the op all the way.

CurlyWurlyTwirly · 14/08/2018 13:13

This may well have been answered up thread, but do you have daughters OP?
At what age would you say they ( or an future daughters) should wear the niqab. What would you say if they refused.

Second question, how would you feel if the niqab was banned? Would you still wear it at home? ( I’m struggling with the getting closer to god thing) Do you just wear shorts and a tshirt at home in the hot weather?

KennDodd · 14/08/2018 13:13

Can I ask you OP, do you believe followers of other religions and atheists are wrong? If not, why not? Can many different Gods exist?

CurlyWurlyTwirly · 14/08/2018 13:15

Bluntness is asking a direct question.
No different to OP persistently questioning CandySugar to out her daughter’s school.

Bluntness100 · 14/08/2018 13:16

Pornstar lips, give it up. Disagreeing with her and challenging her is acceptable. Don't like it? Then discredit by argument, not throw out personal insults and attack.

Pornstarlips · 14/08/2018 13:16

A niqab is a choice. No child should ever be forced to it. I do not recall op stating that children should wear it. Bluntness u come across like a 'know it all' infact you know nothing through your sheer ignorance

Skittlesandbeer · 14/08/2018 13:16

Hi, I was recently in Qatar and noticed a kind of niqab with a gold/brass coloured metal plate across the nose. I could be wrong, but it seemed it might have been older women? Do you know the cultural significance of this type of headdress?

Thanks for your AMA, very educational for me!

Original poster
JamTea · 14/08/2018 13:17

@Bluntness100

It makes no logical sense that you think it raises alarm bells and something else is going on that thr children will need safeguarding from, if wearing the veil is what educated females do and because it brings them closer to god etc

It is what ADULTS do, not children. And that is why it is raising alarm bells.

Come on, why don't you want this school to be outed? Is it really because you don't believe such a school exists? And if you admit that, then everything Candy has said is then questioned, and therefore everything you have been saying using Candy's experience to justify it, suddenly is being questioned too and your motives will come into question too?

I think you know that the many schools that Candy claimed existed don't actually exist. Because if they did, you would be one of the first people to report it to the Daily Mail.

OP posts:
Pornstarlips · 14/08/2018 13:19

I am a muslim, and I do not believe in wearing a niqab, Infact i do not even cover my hair but twisting things and implying that the op is lying is nothing short of bullying.

Bluntness100 · 14/08/2018 13:20

Pornstar lips, I'm reporting you,

I'm happy to engage in robust discussion but there is no need for personal attacks and insults and it's against forum guidelines.

Op, good question, it's not I don't want these schools outed, more I don't think candy needs to do it on here or to you in particular. She needs to deal with it as she sees fit.

Pornstarlips · 14/08/2018 13:22

I am all for freedom of speech, but how can this thread go forward when alot of posters seem to be attacking the op. Go ahead and ask questions but questioning her identity and her integrity is plain nasty

Original poster
JamTea · 14/08/2018 13:24

@CurlyWirlyTirly

Thanks for your questions :)

This may well have been answered up thread, but do you have daughters OP? Yes I have daughters.
At what age would you say they ( or an future daughters) should wear the niqab. What would you say if they refused. I think i have answered this somewhere above but there are so many pages, we will both find it difficult to find the answer! I am not going to encourage my daughters to wear one, as I don't think they have the resilience to wear one. if they did one to wear one and insisted on it, I would ask them to wait till they are at least 16-18 and then make that decision.

Second question, how would you feel if the niqab was banned? Would you still wear it at home? ( I’m struggling with the getting closer to god thing) Do you just wear shorts and a tshirt at home in the hot weather? I don't wear it at home, because God has only instructed me to wear it in public. If it was banned, I would be upset and would be worried not about me (as I am very out going) but about some of my more elder acquaintances and extended family members who I think may be less likely to go out without a niqab. That is my guess having spoken to some of them and just my experience of interacting with them. As for clothing in hot weather, yes I just wear t-shirts and harem pants when it is very hot or a kaftan or summer dress. I have a few Asian suits for weddings or occasions but all my day to day clothes are from the high street (Zara/H&M/Debenhams etc). I also get regular hair cuts (in fact I need to book one this week) and wear make up at home etc too. So all the usual things.

OP posts:
Pornstarlips · 14/08/2018 13:24

Bluntness go ahead and report me, but before you do take one hard look at yourself in the mirror

Original poster
JamTea · 14/08/2018 13:27

@Bluntness100

Op, good question, it's not I don't want these schools outed, more I don't think candy needs to do it on here or to you in particular. She needs to deal with it as she sees fit

Why are you not encouraging her to out them? I have encouraged her to out it to MN who can then report it to Ofsted, or she can tell me privately and I am very happy to blowwhistle too. Why have none of you who are using every opportunity to attack me because I wear a niqab and you don't like what I am saying, not encouraging her to report such schools, which she claims are many?

OP posts:
PurpleCrowbar · 14/08/2018 13:27

Nope, I don't like seeing niqab on women of any age because I'm afraid I do see it as repressive.

But it is the reality that lots of very young girls, in the UK & elsewhere, wear it because this is their family expectation. This is perfectly legal in the UK - if that's how you choose to dress your daughters, that's up to you unless & until they choose to rebel against it.

So if it was part of a school uniform, I don't see how that is a safeguarding concern.

Or rather, I do, but if that's the case you're making then presumably parents with young children whom they cover up should also be pursued by Social Services?

PurpleCrowbar · 14/08/2018 13:30

(& yes, I actually agree with you that schools that do this should be reported to Ofsted, assuming they come under Ofsted's jurisdiction of course.)

Original poster
JamTea · 14/08/2018 13:35

@PurpleCrowbar I know where your questioning was leading to, and you made your point in the end - you wanted to argue that if I felt niqab in the uniform was a safeguarding issue, why didn't I think hijab was?

You see, this is where context comes into place. I understand and know the diverse Muslim community. I know that NO culture and NO sects/groups within Islam would advocate or even encourage 5 year olds to wear niqab. I can say that with 100% certainty. When Candy claimed she knew a school (and then she went on to claim many schools) that forced 5 year olds to wear niqab, it immediately raised alarm bells, as this is just SO alien within the Muslim community, and something else may be going on to, and it just doesn't sound right. if I ever have safeguarding concerns (even if very small) I report them and encourage them to be report them, in fact under Prevent, people working in the public sector have a double duty. This is why I am encouraging Candy to out the school (and if she doesn't want to do it here, she can tell MN who can report it to Ofsted, who can then investigate).

OP posts:
PurpleCrowbar · 14/08/2018 13:41

Are you just speaking for the UK there? (Fine if so - honestly not trying to catch you out!)

Because I live in the ME, & trust me, in the poorer/more conservative areas of my city you can't move without falling over little girls in niqab!

It's rarer amongst middle & upper class women - in fact most of the women I know who do wear it are fellow expat Brits.

So it looks to me as if it IS being imposed on children sometimes.

Bluntness100 · 14/08/2018 13:57

The truth is op I simoly don't think it needs to be outed on mumsnet. Or to an anonymous stranger on mumsnet.

I'm also not sure you're being "attacked for wearing niqab" and I'm surprised you've taken that way. What I see is people challenging your opinions, disagreeing with you, questioning your statements and logic. I do understand why that's difficult to deal with, and to be fair, you're doing an admirable job of taking the discussion, it was always going to be divisive.

But let's be clear, That's very different to being attacked for wearing niqab, which is a very inflammatory accusation.

Yes some posters have explained why they don't like it, and that's acceptable, but again this is not attacking you for wearing it.

drspouse · 14/08/2018 14:04

The school I'm near is 11-18.