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Original poster

I wear a niqab! AMA

838 replies

JamTea · 12/08/2018 13:34

Hi everyone,

I am a regular MNer and NC'd for this :). As background, I have a successful career in tech, I am a Muslim and I wear niqab too. Since Boris's comments, I've seen quite a bit written on MN about burqa and niqab, and thought it may be useful to answer any questions people have in relation to niqab. I also know a large number of Muslim women and have lived in various Muslim communities, so can probably speak from my experience and relay other people's experiences too.

Just as a note: I don't know any women in the UK that wear burqa and I have never seen anyone wear a burqa in real life. The difference between niqab and burqa is illustrated here: cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/scarf-651554.jpg

OP posts:
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Original poster
JamTea · 14/08/2018 12:25

@OpalIridescence

I suppose I am asking if rather than becoming more integrated you think society is actually becoming more polarised and people use religious symbols at signifiers of status/piety/tribalism?

I honestly don't think this is the case. The vast majority of Muslims are integrated very well into British society. And to be honest religious symbols such as hijab doesn't say much about piety etc, because it is a very small part of everything else we are required to do. I don't believe British Muslim women are using the hijab to say 'hey we are different and we want the world to know'. Rather they feel very comfortable being British and being Muslim at the same time, and just don't see that as an oxymoron. I think the problem is Muslim women percieve the hijab just as a cloth that covers their hair (and same with niqab - a cloth has that covers their face) BUT the British public led by the media seem more and more to be politicizing hijab, whereas to Muslim women in the UK, it isn't a political or a statement tool, it is quite simply a cloth that covers their hair. I hope that answers your question.

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 14/08/2018 12:27

But to be completely honest with you, it is MUCH easier for me to use other things to control women, such as financial abuse, in-law abuse, emotional abuse, even physical domestic abuse, than use the niqab. This is because being the partner of someone that wears niqab is challenging, as although you as the man are not wearing niqab, you also face looks, insults, and people even from our own Muslim community sometimes do look down on you. So if the abusive men want to control and abuse women in our community, they have much easier tools to use than use the niqab. Does that make sense?*

No op because your grammar again confuses me. Earlier you referred to "these women" as if you were not one of them, and now you refer to yourself as a man.

I'm sure you understand why this conflicting grammar is confusing.

PurpleCrowbar · 14/08/2018 12:28

OP - I'm a bit confused by the last but one paragraph of your 12.17 post.

Are you writing as a man there? 'It is much easier for me to use other things to control women...'?

Or just a typo? Me = men?

Original poster
JamTea · 14/08/2018 12:29

@Bluntness100 I am not attacking Candy. It is a SAFEGUARDING issue and she needs to name at least one of the schools so that the school can be reported Ofsted. I don't understand why she can't name one of the schools of the 'many' she claims forces 5 year olds to wear niqab. I could understand if she was not willing to name the local one where her daughter will have to go to, but she has claimed there are 'many' that force 5 year olds to wear niqab. So with all due respect, she can name one and should be willing to name one when she has made such a claim and it is a safeguarding issue.

OP posts:
PurpleCrowbar · 14/08/2018 12:29

X post again!

I though maybe OP had invited her DH to contribute? But read back could just be a typo.

Bluntness100 · 14/08/2018 12:30

No op she does not "need" to name it on this forum or to you.

Original poster
JamTea · 14/08/2018 12:31

@Bluntness100 and @PurpleCrowbar

Goodness ladies, it is a typo! I can't get my head around why people are not willing to believe? MNHQ have also confirmed my identity so what is it with you guys seriously? Why can't you believe what I am saying? Is it is really so so so far away from everything you assumed about ALL muslim women that wear niqab?!

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Original poster
JamTea · 14/08/2018 12:32

@Bluntness100 YES she does. When she makes such claims which are clear safeguarding issues, AND she uses that claim to TARNISH the Muslim community, she does need to mention it.

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 14/08/2018 12:34

Op. Of course we believe what you're saying, but when you get the grammar wrong it's confusing, you can understand that surely? It would be very sinister indeed if you were a man posting, so of course when the grammar is wrong it is incumbent on us to check.

Fully accept it was another typo.

And mumsnet has confirmed you've been a member for a long time, they have not confirmed your identity obviously.

Monkeymonstermum · 14/08/2018 12:37

Jam - this is a genuine question and really not intending to offend. If you believe it is a safe guarding issue for a 5 year old to wear a niquab but no issue for a woman, why is this? I personally view both as a form of oppression. I think you may say that the 5 year old has no choice...but many things our children do they do not have a choice in. For example what my children eat for dinner tonight. I will make that choice for them. I will choose whether they go to church or not. If you see the niquab in itself as not oppressive why the safeguarding issue for the (reading these threads possible mythical) 5 year old dressed in it?

jellycat1 · 14/08/2018 12:39

So OP am I right to infer from your latest that you agree it completely unacceptable for little girls to be wearing full face coverings?

PurpleCrowbar · 14/08/2018 12:40

As you were then Jamtea. Didn't disbelieve your bona fides - just thought you might have invited a second party to contribute.

I live in an Islamic country, BTW. I do have several mates who wear niqab! Grin. So no, I find your experience perfectly believable - & Candy's, also, as it resonates with that of Muslim friends & acquaintances in the UK.

PurpleCrowbar · 14/08/2018 12:42

'Some' Muslim friends in the UK that should be. Not suggesting what Candy describes is common. But I do know it's not unheard of.

Bluntness100 · 14/08/2018 12:43

Op no, I'm sorry, I shall have to disagree with uou on this. Candy has no need to give you a school name, it it her decision on what she does on terms of safeguarding, she doesn't need to provide any names to you.

counterpoint · 14/08/2018 12:43

It is a SAFEGUARDING issue and she needs to name at least one of the schools so that the school can be reported Ofsted.

Which safeguarding issue?

jellycat1 · 14/08/2018 12:43

@Monkeymonstermum you are exactly right imo.

Original poster
JamTea · 14/08/2018 12:44

@RoadToRivendell

Isn't in fair to say that the communities in which women wear the niqab tend to be, on balance, very insular? I know more women who don't wear niqab in my community that are insular than women who wear niqab. That's my experience. Doesn't mean it can be generalised but I am basing that on knowing at least 50-100 niqabi women and a similar amount of non-niqabi Muslim women.

I'd wager that the more covered the woman, the more likely she is susceptible to abuse or general lack of autonomy. I can hear myself sounding like a meddlesome, patronising Western woman here, but I also think I'm right. In public yes, so you are more likely to be abused by members of public. But at home, I in fact believe it is the opposite. You might not believe me, and I can understand why, but hear me out please. Not all, but the vast majority of Muslim women my age who wear niqab have received a specialist higher level of Islamic education, so they are much more clued on about their Islamic rights than the average Muslim woman. So for example, they know the evidences straight from the scripture as to for example why forced marriages are completely banned in Islam, or why women do not need to live with their in-laws and the husband must provide a separate house for them (which is in conflict with the south asian culture). We actually have a problem in the community I currently live in where Muslim men don't want to marry women that wear niqab, primarily because they find them that the women's beliefs and practices are too anti their south Asian culture and the women are not willing to back down, as they know the Islamic scripture inside out and will use it to defend their needs. So for example, many south Asian men want their wife to live with her in-laws, whereas these Muslim women who are very well educated in the scripture and wear niqab etc are not willing to back down on that. It is interesting to observe.

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Bluntness100 · 14/08/2018 12:44

Agree good question monkeymonstermum, if the veil takes you closer to god, why is it a safeguarding issue?

LighthouseSouth · 14/08/2018 12:44

OP thank you for answering my question

further to my comment about violent men etc, do you also understand that I woudn't want to sit next to you on public transport etc?

I might get deleted for the question but I'm thinking as you are sympathetic to that fear, I would hope it would apply across the board.

Original poster
JamTea · 14/08/2018 12:52

@Monkeymonstermum

If you see the niquab in itself as not oppressive why the safeguarding issue for the (reading these threads possible mythical) 5 year old dressed in it?

Because if the school is doing this (forcing 5 year olds to wear to niqab - which is not in any culture nor religion), it suggests something else may be going on, and it rings alarm bells. This does need to be investigated for the safety of the children attending.

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Original poster
JamTea · 14/08/2018 12:54

@LighthouseSouth

further to my comment about violent men etc, do you also understand that I woudn't want to sit next to you on public transport etc?

I completely 110% understand and would never ever be offended :)

In fact, even times where I have not worn the niqab and just hijab (head covering) - so for exmaple when travelling for work to remote areas - I have found that even then many people are hesitant to sit next to me. And I can completely understand people feeling weary of the unknown.

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LighthouseSouth · 14/08/2018 12:56

Thanks OP

the hijab doesn't worry me at all, it's the niqab and the concern that it might be a man.

LukeCagesWife · 14/08/2018 12:57

@lighthouse why would you not want to sit next to the OP? Fear? Segregation?

Admittedly, I can think of a few different people I don’t want to sit next to on transport for various reasons good and bad!

Original poster
JamTea · 14/08/2018 12:58

I don't understand - many of you are so anti-niqab (which is fair enough - you are entitled to your opinion) BUT are NOT keen on outing schools that are apparently forcing 5 year old girls to wear niqab (face covering)?!! Why would you NOT want that? Surely you would want that more than anyone else as it supports your beliefs and argument?

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PurpleCrowbar · 14/08/2018 12:59

Not really.

I know a school that forced the girls to wear trousers with the school initials embroidered on the bum. To force parents to shop at the official supplier & stop them buying styles which the governors disapproved of.

That's not a cultural requirement either, but no one suggested it flagged up a safeguarding concern.

So why shouldn't a school impose niqab wearing, if they wanted? Unless it's a repressive item of clothing which no one should be obliged to wear (which fugly trousers probably aren't! )