I wear a niqab! AMA

[JamTea]

Hi everyone,

I am a regular MNer and NC'd for this :). As background, I have a successful career in tech, I am a Muslim and I wear niqab too. Since Boris's comments, I've seen quite a bit written on MN about burqa and niqab, and thought it may be useful to answer any questions people have in relation to niqab. I also know a large number of Muslim women and have lived in various Muslim communities, so can probably speak from my experience and relay other people's experiences too.

Just as a note: I don't know any women in the UK that wear burqa and I have never seen anyone wear a burqa in real life. The difference between niqab and burqa is illustrated here: cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/scarf-651554.jpg

@Sigma33

Would those blaming jamtea for getting abuse because she chooses the niqab say the same about women who get harassed because they wear a short skirt or low top? Very good question.

@BarrackerBarmer I have strong conviction in my faith, so I very rarely dount. I do meet many women of all backgrounds face to face.

But I hate that my daughter especially is learning how the world expects a different, more restrictive standard from her sex. And it is very fair for you to point it out, but it is only restrictive if the woman wearing it feels it is restrictive (you can't make that assumption). Just as I can't say, it is restrictive for women to be expected to wear high heels (because some women love wearing it and others don't). So I think it is only fair you make clear that if it is the woman's choice then that is her choice (and you have met one woman (Me! :)) who wears it of her freewill), and that there are still things within our British culture too where men and women are still not treated equally, such as the social pressure to wear heels in certain professions, hair removal, and the gender pay gap etc.

@Pornstarlips

I do not believe one word that candysuger said. She was definitely trying to derail the whole thread. I am a muslim woman and everything she said seemed very fake and full of lies. If her husband was so oppressive she wouldn't have mobile phone for one. Or access to a laptop etc. I believe the OP completely but ofcourse white women seem to think that all muslim women do not have a brain and robots. I feel very offended

And the irony is that I got accused that my husband must have taken my mobile away and that's why I took a few hours before I replied . It is just so ludicrous.

This thread is disgusting. I can guarantee the people spouting nonsense about all Muslim women being oppressed probably haven't got any Muslim friends or family.
I'm a Muslim woman and know a lot of other Muslims and maybe one of those women are oppressed out of 100 that I know.
I don't agree with the niqab either and would welcome a ban by the way but I would never spout such disgusting stuff that clearly isn't true.
We work, we play, we go out to eat, holiday, do all the fun things other people around the world do.
I don't wear hijab but I don't show any skin apart from hair hands face feet, I pray, I fast i give my yearly money to charity, because I want to, there's nobody who would know if I didnt.
I don't drink or eat pork or haram foods but I'll pretty much eat anything else. I'm a foodie I love many cuisines. I am a woman, i am human.
Maybe try genuinely making a friend of someone from the Islamic faith and you'll see how similar you are.
The most upsetting thing is, i wouldnt type this under my usual username because I know if women on here knew I was Muslim and I started a thread ( I have started many) I wouldn't get as many kind words or helpful advice simply because you would know I'm muslim.Some of you who have shown how islamaphobic you are are the very same who've given me such amazing advice in the past. That is the sad fact

@Apileofballyhoo I didn't mean to be offensive with my questions at all, I was just curious about why you picked Iran as possibly oppressive versus Saudi Arabia - you seemed to have a different attitude to the enforced coverings in each country. I possibly picked that up wrong. Saudi Arabia seems more oppressive to me by far. I realise now you don't have any great insight, any more than I have any great insight into Christian fundamentalists in the US. I didn't take offence, don't worry. I don't know Iran or the SA well enough, but I just picked one as an example.

I was a bit surprised you didn't point out the parts of the Koran and hadith that you personally believe to mean wearing your niqab pleases your Lord - I would have liked to read those parts as whenever I look it up the explanations seem quite contradictory (some Muslims believe this, some Muslims believe that, some Muslims believe the other). So I would have liked to have read your own personal reasoning on it, even if you were to say what school of thought you follow. The reason why I don't want to get into a theological debate is because despite whatever I have said, and what evidence from the scripture and hadith I bring forward, there are some posters who are just adamant they know better. I follow the hanafi school of thought. The ayah of niqab is in Surah Al-Ahzaab, Verse #59

‘O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks ("Jalabib") veils all over their bodies (screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way Tafseer Al-Qurtabi) that is most convenient that they should be known (as such) and not molested: and Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful."

There are some scholars who have understood Jalabib in this verse to include the face (and that is the majority of the scholars), and a minority who have taken it not to believe it includes the face. There is however no doubt that the wives of the companions wore niqab and it is recommended at the very least in Islam. I will repeat what I said up thread:

The four major imams in Sunni islam believe that it is recommended for Muslim women to wear niqab. In fact two of them believe it is compulsory for women to wear niqab when in public. If you have evidence which proves the four imams didn't say that, bring it forward to me. Until then please stop telling me niqab has no basis in Islam.

I am a muslim woman and everything she said seemed very fake and full of lies

A Muslim woman using a username referring explicitly to an activity referring to the sexual objectification of women for commercial exploitation.

JamTea, thanks for this thread.

To me, the niqab represents a public life of anonymity, restriction, a life half-lived, really, so I can't get on board with this notion of it bringing you closer to God.

Someone raised a good point upthread; how does this even figure into sports? Sorry if you've already covered this.

I think, uncomfortable though it must be for you in the aftermath of Boris Johnson's article, it's something that must be repeated: the niqab is antithetical to Western values.

I'd say no. The cultural pressure to shave and wear a painful bra each day before leaving the house are incredible.

So much of this whataboutery on MN these days. I wear a bra to avoid my boobs jiggling all about. My bra is not painful. Some days I shave, other days I do not - just like my husband.

@yoyobeen

The most upsetting thing is, i wouldnt type this under my usual username because I know if women on here knew I was Muslim and I started a thread ( I have started many) I wouldn't get as many kind words or helpful advice simply because you would know I'm muslim.Some of you who have shown how islamaphobic you are are the very same who've given me such amazing advice in the past. That is the sad fact

This is what upsets me the most about this thread . I have been a MNer for years (as verified by MN HQ), and I have never come across a thread where group bullying of this nature has taken place and people haven't quickly come to call it out. I am really shocked not just by the extent people have gone to discredit (just because I wear niqab) but also what appears to be radio silence from everyone else.

@RoadToRivendell

Someone raised a good point upthread; how does this even figure into sports? Sorry if you've already covered this. I do mainly indoor sports. So I go to sessions that are for women only. Say for example, swimming, where there are a good mix of women from different backgrounds and faiths.

I would normally defend a Woman's right to wear what ever they want, but posters claiming that everything is Rosie for all women wearing full face coverings is incredibly short sighted.
We in the UK have known honour-killings, we have forced marriages and we have cases of young girls being sent abroad for FGM..... why is it so hard to believe that some women and young girls are not wearing these face coverings by choice?
Im not sure id go as far as supporting a ban but I'm defiantly concerned that some people are so desperate to appear liberal and excepting that they refuse to acknowledge there are oppressed women out there who would love to be free of it.

Pornstarlips I'm not accusing her of lying.

Choosing to wear a burqa or a niqab is one end of the line where the other end is choosing to be a prostitute or a stripper.

Both are based on women's bodies being so shameful and lust provoking they must be be covered up or so shameful and lust provoking they must be displayed naked for commercial exploitation.

Oh and your username is offensive.

This is what upsets me the most about this thread sad. I have been a MNer for years (as verified by MN HQ), and I have never come across a thread where group bullying of this nature has taken place and people haven't quickly come to call it out. I am really shocked not just by the extent people have gone to discredit (just because I wear niqab) but also what appears to be radio silence from everyone else.

I guess you could infer from this that even posters who are normally quick to point out Islamaphobia don't like the niqab.

Trust me I am a muslim sunni. I do not want to get into a debate about my username. I could practice my faith better but hey I will go in my own grave.

@Sweetsongbird1

The majority of Muslim ladies do not wear them as it says NO WHERE in the religious scriptures they must be worn. Can you please stop telling me what is or isn't in my own religious scriptures. What gives you the authority and knowledge to know what is in my own religious scriptures?! Are you a Muslim scholar, and if so, reveal your identity please and tell me who you have ijazahs from.

Why is my username offensive? Dont worry it will changed next week to something more sensible.

@RoadToRivendell

I guess you could infer from this that even posters who are normally quick to point out Islamaphobia don't like the niqab.

And does make it OK for people to treat women who wear niqab sub-humanly, so not point out bullying when they see it? Are they blinded by their hate for niqab so much that even bullying a woman that wears niqab is now OK?

What Candy was saying was much closer to the experience imagined by most western women. The OPs experience is not.

We have no idea who either of these people are. We have no option but to take them at face value. It is interesting that more people believed the woman who was saying she was oppressed.

@JamTea @ Pornstarlips
Are the instructions from God to cover your face when put in public, or in front of any non related male? Genuine question.

@muttmad

I would normally defend a Woman's right to wear what ever they want, but posters claiming that everything is Rosie for all women wearing full face coverings is incredibly short sighted.

Let me make it very clear: I didn't and I am not saying it is all rosie for ALL women that wear niqabi. I am sharing my experience and the experience of my friends and acquaintances who wear niqab. I will never dismiss the experience of what I believe in my experience are a minority from within the niqabi women who may be forced to wear it (and I really abhor such a practice as it is wrong and it also gives the rest of us such a bad name).

Dear Jamtea

Thank you for trying to educate. But I'm really sorry that you have been put in a position where you feel you have to. No woman should ever feel she has to justify the choices she makes about something that does not harm anyone else.

But I do have a question for you if you don't mind because I'm curious? Where do you get your clothes from? Is there a wide selection of niqab/hijab suppliers in UK? And to what extent do you personalise your niqab/other clothes in terms of colours?

Barack Obama famously only had one colour of suit so he didnt; have to decide what to wear and could save his decision making capability for other things. Do you find that not having to worry about clothes makes it easier to focus on other stuff

@SimonBridges

What Candy was saying was much closer to the experience imagined by most western women. The OPs experience is not.

And I hope some people reading my experience may start thing that next time they see a woman that wears niqab it is probably best to ask her, rather than make assumptions about her, as people's reasons and experiences are different. And we Muslim women, even if we were niqab, are just as intelligent as the average Brit.

We have no idea who either of these people are. We have no option but to take them at face value. It is interesting that more people believed the woman who was saying she was oppressed.

Well MN has confirmed Candy registered yesterday and de-registered today. She also said somethings that were just too far fetched, and when asked about which school was forcing 5 year olds to wear niqab (as I wanted to report that to Ofsted), she appeared to have fled after completely derailing this thread, and helping the bullies push their agenda. I on the other hand, MN have verified, have been on this site for a long time. I have also offered to meet people in person, and the offer still stands.

@MrsMacGarry

Thanks for your questions and I appreciate your support :)

But I do have a question for you if you don't mind because I'm curious? Where do you get your clothes from? Is there a wide selection of niqab/hijab suppliers in UK? And to what extent do you personalise your niqab/other clothes in terms of colours?

There are quite a few shops online and in areas where there are Muslims that sell niqab and hijab. I wear different colour hijabs but to be honest I don't have a very good fashion sense, although most of my friends are very good and will match it all up (jilbab, scarf, handbag, shoes etc). Underneath the jilbab and when at home, I wear clothes from the high street.

Barack Obama famously only had one colour of suit so he didnt; have to decide what to wear and could save his decision making capability for other things. Do you find that not having to worry about clothes makes it easier to focus on other stuff

This made me smile :) Yes it does make it a lot easier, especially when I am just running out to grab a pint of milk or in a rush to get to work. I have been with my PJs on underneath and of course no one knows and it feels good ;)

We have no idea who either of these people are. We have no option but to take them at face value.

I do like a bit of irony.

^^PS. I don't make a habit of it I promise. I don't like going out of the house without having a shower and ready for the day, but it has happened on a few occasions, especially when my DC were young.

@Clionba Good question, any non-related male.