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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #62

206 replies

nauticant · 03/08/2026 18:00

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.
Following handing down of the judgment on 8 December 2025, on 11 December 2025, it was announced by Sandie Peggie and her legal team that they would be pursuing an appeal and it was reported on 3 August 2026 that leave to appeal had been granted with an expectation that the appeal proceedings could take place in court early next year (2027).

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 60: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5461133-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-60 16 December 2025 to 8 January 2026

Thread 61: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

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prh47bridge · Today 00:00

YourWatermelonship · Yesterday 23:12

Thanks @prh47bridge , your posts are always so informative

As a lay person I feel that "fair-minded" sounds quite subjective. I wonder if there is a legal definition of the term. I wonder if the anonymous mythical judicial colleague was fair-minded.

In terms of bias I am thinking about the fact that all the errors in the judgement were unfavourable to Sandie. What would the odds be of plain incompetence producing such an outcome? That's an objective measure.

All the errors going one way could simply mean that their understanding of the relevant law is wrong. It doesn't necessarily mean they are biased.

ProfessorBinturong · Today 00:20

prh47bridge · Yesterday 23:51

No, you cannot completely separate them. We cannot have a situation where a judge is disciplined for incompetence when the appeal courts have not considered the case. What would happen if a judge was disciplined for incompetence on the basis of a judgment which was subsequently upheld by the Supreme Court? Only the courts can decide whether the judge got it right. Having a situation where the Judicial Office for Scotland and the JCIO could second guess the courts would lead to chaos.

It's not about whether the judgement was correct, it's about oversight of and ability to deal with failures of process or training. In this case made up quotes and misuse of slip rule. On a wider basis possibly a need for training all tribunal judges to ensure they understand Forstater, FWS etc.

To compare with a different professional field, a doctor can be disciplined for incompetence and failure to follow correct processes even if all their patients recover. The NHS has audit processes to identify systemic problems independently of individual outcomes.

MyrtleLion · Today 00:48

My frustration is that Ground 13 seems to be about whether generative AI was used in writing the decision. If it has been denied, then are we able to get a finding on whether it was used and if so, it was incorrectly used.

Forgive me if it's addressed elsewhere in the grounds as I have haven't read the full document, but if Ground 13 is refused, how does this blatant incorrect citing get addressed and then stopped?

thirdfiddle · Today 01:05

Ground 13 – Appearance of bias and/or failure properly to discharge the judicial
function

Thank you @prh47bridge, as ever fascinating insights. Does the second clause of this allow it to be tackled from the angle of incorrect processes even without enough indication of bias? Or is that legalese for something in the bias line too?
Taking it to a hypothetical extreme, if a ET judge went mad and wrote in his judgement that he had tossed a coin to decide who won, would that be appealable as failure to properly discharge the judicial function?

NebulousSupportPostcard · Today 01:22

MyrtleLion · Today 00:48

My frustration is that Ground 13 seems to be about whether generative AI was used in writing the decision. If it has been denied, then are we able to get a finding on whether it was used and if so, it was incorrectly used.

Forgive me if it's addressed elsewhere in the grounds as I have haven't read the full document, but if Ground 13 is refused, how does this blatant incorrect citing get addressed and then stopped?

My guess is that the frustration around the rejection of Ground 13 has been the key driver in the decision to publish the NOA at this stage.

fanOfBen · Today 03:48

You could easily have a case where all parties agreed that the judge decided a case in the right (or, only possible) direction, and yet, that he clearly exhibited bias and failed properly to exercise the judicial function. There could be no appeal then, so what is supposed to happen?

(Imagine a case where (based on evidence given in court, let's say, to account for the case having come to court in the first place) it is completely obvious to everyone which side is right. The Judge, however, slurred his words and repeatedly fell asleep every afternoon, and then wrote a judgment in which he said the fairies told him the answer in his dream, or indeed explained how he tossed a coin repeatedly until it gave him the answer he wanted.)

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