I just don’t want to do secret Santa!

You are still not getting it. You arent the boss of the world who dictates what other people find joyful. They are making this loud and clear but you just want to do you and to hell with anyone else.

Yeah, if people arent the same as OP they are 'miserable'.. Its about OP, and what they like, remember!

Pot…meet kettle.

Ummmmm really?

She's suggesting a change. She's not demanding it. However, you are completely unwilling to even give it a chance, I understand this is because you are the most amazing, intuitive gift-giver ever, but why not step away from the status-quo and allow a change just once? Why not let someone else get their way just once?

You remind me a lot of my brother - he also knows what is best, including what is best for everyone else. He responded with DARVO and I can see elements of this in your responses, especially this one.

She asks for a change to be tried once per year - yet you paint her to be a persistent, unrelenting joy-stealer, selfish and controlling. However she's proposing something aimed at reducing cost and effort for everyone, whereas you appear unwilling even to try it because you enjoy choosing multiple gifts. The irony is that the behaviour you criticise in your SIL, insisting on doing Christmas a particular way despite other people's preferences, is the same behaviour you are exhibiting yourself.

You also dismiss people's suggestions of your SIL's being financially motivated saying it's likely because she CBA. Yet, you say you rarely see them - you're basing your information on nothing. You don't know what's going on with them, yet you're willing to think the worst of them.

We did secret santa for years. If there was something I saw that I knew someone would love, I would buy it over and above the secret santa gift.

Apologies, I mis-remembered.

I have corrected my comment:

Ummmmm really?

She's suggesting a change. She's not demanding it. However, you are completely unwilling to even give it a chance, I understand this is because you are the most amazing, intuitive gift-giver ever, but why not step away from the status-quo and allow a change just once? Why not let someone else get their way just once?

You remind me a lot of my brother - he also knows what is best, including what is best for everyone else. He responded with DARVO and I can see elements of this in your responses, especially this one.

She asks for a change to be tried once per year - yet you paint her to be a persistent, unrelenting joy-stealer, selfish and controlling. However she's proposing something aimed at reducing cost and effort for everyone, whereas you appear unwilling even to try it because you enjoy choosing multiple gifts. The irony is that the behaviour you criticise in your SIL, insisting on doing Christmas a particular way despite other people's preferences, is the same behaviour you are exhibiting yourself.

You also dismiss people's suggestions of your SIL's being financially motivated saying it's likely because she CBA. Yet, you say you rarely see them you're not close - you're basing your information on nothing. You don't know what's going on with them, yet you're willing to think the worst of them.

We did secret santa for years. If there was something I saw that I knew someone would love, I would buy it over and above the secret santa gift.

That's not what the SIL is suggesting, though.

It's been discussed quite a lot already that SIL is combining the Secret Santa concept and the 'buy me this specific gift and I'll buy you your one specific gift' list concept. This is what SIL is proposing and what OP thinks she and her family would prefer not to do.

Hate secret santa! I’m with you OP. Not bothered at all if I get any presents and if another family member decided against buying for adults no one would bat an eyelid, but want the freedom to give as we think is right. In our family the older generation would not like this either. We don’t spend a lot per person.

Explain in the group chat that you enjoy choosing and wrapping gifts and that you’re going to opt out of secret Santa. Fine if that’s theirs want to do it but you won’t be.

And what did she say?

Yanbu. A gift that is given with strict criteria to a predetermined budget and with the knowledge that it will be exactly reciprocated is not a gift, it's a transaction. Gifts are gifts if they are freely given without expectation of return.

So if she just wants to spend £20 and consider her duty to the family done, she can do that. If you want to choose and wrap something for each family member you can.

What she wants is to be able to cut her budget without her being any less generous than anyone else. That's an understandable thing to want but it's not something she can demand or enforce.

I was going to say I agree with you, i hate SS too. My in laws love it and i think it’s totally pointless. I struggle to make a list of things i want for the budget and would prefer to buy something i want for myself

But you want everyone to buy gifts for everyone else?

how bloody ridiculous and pointless

what utter waste of money.

ypur way is bonkers

It doesn’t work like that though does it. it’s not just money, its time

you are probably planning to buy something for her parents that she cant compete with

before we did SS i used to have a huge pile of tat / token gifts for the charity shop each year

it unnecessary consumption

Put an anonymous poll in the chat so you can find out what everyone else actually wants to do.

If you were my sister in law I would want to do secret Santa too. You sound like hard work!

OP has been given solutions that satisfy the requirements. At this point she’s feeding on the arguing.

Have a lovely Christmas!

How about everyone just gets gifts for their nuclear family/ household, and you all just hang out together? If I was SIL I would announce that was what I'm doing and I'm not gifting anyone else.

I agree those are the best gifts. There is no point being given something I would but myself anyway. But being given something I love but would never buy for myself is joyful and makes me feel happy that the people I care about have thought about me.
I don't hate Secret Santa because I think it has it's place. But not in a small family where money isn't an object and where everyone says what they want and others have to buy something from that list. What is the point? It takes all the pleasure out of giving and receiving.

Yes, this.
The more of this thread I read the more sympathy I have for the SIL.

Me too! It seems she's been trying to lay that down to the OP that they don't want to spend the money on extended family gifts and OP is being willingly obtuse about it lol.

I totally get it @YouMustBeTheWeasleys. I love Christmas and when I was younger (early 20s) my parents announced that we wouldn’t be doing gifts for each other just for the children in the family. I imagine this was driven by my brother and sister as they were probably broke with young kids. It did take a bit of the shine off Christmas for me, as I got no gift but more so I didn’t get to give gifts to them.

You need to remember though she is probably worried about money. Why not make secret Santa fun? Like you have to buy the gift from a charity chop or a theme?

We do secret Santa but there’s 23 adults and 7 under 18s we don’t include the under 18s they get presents from the five households the rest we spend £50 and a joke present for a fiver we used to buy separately but ended up
with a silly amount of gifts