Greens adopt policy treating Zionism as racism (part 2)

Yes, the Greens were ripe for a takeover. Also there are many activists in the party who support what's happened, especially those attending the conference. The motion got voted though 1,022 votes in favour and 813 against.

Zionism is a political movement, some elements of the extreme wings of those that support it are particularly racist and that I can understand.

The ancestral homeland that people talk about is also the home of Christianity, Muslims and Jews. That can not be denied and if you believe in religion then that must be accepted.

Let's hope that the people of Israel select a future that is moderate and one that promotes peace and not endless war. One that puts state above religion. One that builds bridges with enemies and finds a way of actually becoming friends.

That is why people talk about the red green alliance, communists being the red

Islamists - Communists

when your neighbours are more inclined to a rerun of Oct 7 2023, it’s hard to be friendly

It was alleged though that those voting numbers were achieved by bringing in new members to get that vote through, and that the result doesn’t necessarily reflect overall feeling within the party. (I’ve no idea how true that is TBF)

I have to say that if the real environmentalists did leave en masse, would be kind of funny to see the Greens become a party of radical Islamists and trans allies. I expect that wouldn’t be a stable state though, and would quickly be followed by “purges” of the TRAs to leave a purely Islamist party.

But if you think like that then it's endless war. We had this in Northern Ireland and there are still people who hate and would rather see a return to conflict rather than peace.

Move past what has happened and build a bridge one stone at a time. If you don't it will eventually be your demise.

Peace is possible

It would be interesting to know the percentage of new members that joining the last year compared to old members that voted in favour or against

We can assume what happened, educated guess but facts would be good to see

Just saw a video of a horrible neighbour in the UK that kept throwing nappies and rubbish into the garden next to her own

Sometimes posts on mumsnet are like us saying to the owner of the garden getting wrecked that they must not do anything about it and they shouldn't complain but 'Be kind'

But nothing similar to Oct 7th ever happened in Northern Ireland, much less threatening to commit more such in the future- it’s very hard to see what there is to negotiate when one side literally promises to repeat its massacres of civilians until the other side no longer exists.

Like, what can the side which was the victim of that attack give away in exchange that would satisfy the killers? The right to commit smaller massacres in exchange for advance warning?
Especially when the side who attacked on Oct 7th lost the subsequent war and so should (if they were a genuine army and not a bunch religious madmen) be declaring an unconditional surrender.

That is tbe point

The neighbours need to stop thinking that doing another 7th October is a good idea then everyone can start the peace process.

If after 7th October even the tide had not gone the way it did with repeated threats to do it again and hostages taking so long to get returned plus many that entered Gaza returned dead then potentially we would be talking differently now politically

Also elections in Israel are not going to make a difference conflict wise only domesticly. All parties are pretty much on the same page about most things regarding conflict at the moment. The only massive change will be handling of settlers violence. Bibi turns a blind eye to often others won't put up with it.

Israel handed Gaza over to Palestinian control.

And look where that got them. Why would they want to hand over the whole of the West Bank?

As an outsider and by no means an expert on Israeli politics, it does seem to me that Netanyahu is a brake for Israel’s attempts to change change its image in the outside world.
I’m under no illusion that a shocking number of people in Europe and elsewhere will continue to support Israel’s enemies no matter what, but Eisenkot would make it harder for those who claim (and sometimes genuinely want) not to be antisemitic to portray events as a war between two extremes.

And Eisenkot, having lost a son and nephews in the fighting since Oct 7th, cannot be accused of wanting to continue the war for political gain while his own family is safely abroad - again something that Netanyahu did.

I know nothing about how good a politician Eisenkot would be though. That’s the weakness in my thinking😬

Christians, atheists and even Muslims have more freedom and legal protections in Israel than Christians, Jews and particularly atheists have in any of the neighbouring Middle Eastern countries though. It’s odd how people claiming to want rights for Muslims in Israel never seem to care about the rights of minorities in any of their neighbouring countries.

Actually even Muslims have more rights in Israel than in some of their Muslim majority neighbours.

Clearly you are not from Northern Ireland. I reiterate that had Israel not reacted the way it had there would be a lot more support for Israel than it has right now.... which kind of proves my point.

Yes seek justice but war in the form of what we have seen has actually endangered Israel as a civilisation rather than make it safer. The shooting of civilians in Northern Ireland did what exactly other than enrage and perpetuate violence.

Take a breath, pause, think and then make a decision.

LOL I literally am. I grew up in a very nationalist part of NI (one you’d know of from the news at the time)
So go ahead: tell me of the times when the IRA attacked Protestant families in their beds, kidnapped toddlers, raped and murdered teens at a concert etc etc.

Oh and @dwordle, the “shootings of civilians” in NI that you refer to are far closer to the sorts of attacks on buses and so on by Palestinians that have been happening in Israel for years.
Terrible, yes, but nothing like Oct 7th which was a whole other level of horror. Indeed I’m fairly sure Oct 7th was a crime against humanity and quite possibly attempted genocide.

So you excuse one set of horrors for another and how does that solve anything. How does this actually end, they have punished the civilians of Gaza, largely children, and what next. They have just created the next generation of terrorists. Had they behaved in a more balanced way have you not considered that things actually might change.

I've heard it all before and sadly nothing gets better from revenge.

It wasn't an attempted genocide, it was a genocide. Hunting down a group of people based on their race, with the intent to destroy that protected group. You don't get more directed and targeted than that.

I wonder if they would then be allowed to run as a political party? An Islamic party was refused permission to stand as an official party purely coincidentally of course. just before lots of fundamentalist Muslims discovered environmentalism. So I'm assuming the same issues will arise if the Greens become a purely Islamic party. However, I do think there are a lot of the Hard Left Corbynist types who don't care about trans issues who would happily continue in an Islamist party if they had to be there to prop it up. I suspect the shared values of anti Semitism and lack of concern for women would hold them together if it was politically expedient.

Balanced way? 3 years on and that naive approach is still being espoused. What was balanced about the slaughter that would make any reasonable and rational person believe that negotiation or a lesser approach was in the realms of possibility?

exactly. It's hilarious that the Greens think a single Palestinian state is going to be a safe place for Jews, Christians, atheists, Gay people, or in any way democratic. If they wanted, they could have set up a democratic state with religious freedom for all in any of the many surrounding Muslim majority countries. Why do they think 'Palestine' will be different ?

To put this into maths - if France decided one day to run across the UK border and kill and kidnap British citizens, it would be the equivalent in population terms of them destroying 10,000 people.

Now think about what sort of response we would expect from our government. If France did this (theoretically without the water between us) - sitting there with thousands of British citizens in tunnels, hundreds of British babies being used as hostages and the promise to keep doing this again and again until the UK ceased to exist and British citizens WORLDWIDE were all dead.

What would you do? What would you expect? What happened in WW2 when a version of this did happen? And why on earth should Israel have to be the bigger person and invite these sorts of attacks on repeat?

It's not like the surrounding Muslim countries have a great history of supporting Jewish rights and freedoms. Mostly we were murdered or kicked out. We certainly aren't invited to vote!

It's a really ridiculous situation that somehow Israel - one of the smallest countries in the world - is always the aggressor when they have been dealing with kidnappings and hijackings and car rammings and buses exploding and attacks from every corner of their borders from a variety of countries and terrorist groups from millions and millions and millions of people who hate Jews and want to destroy all of us.

Maybe one day someone else can make the first move towards developing a peaceful solution. We are very tired.

Israel was attacked by 5 countries the day it was created. It is surrounded by people who want its destruction (and who the Green Party now agree with as policy). It is constantly bombarded with rockets to the point where their houses contain a concrete safe room and the country is protected by an Iron Dome. There are regular terrorist attacks.

The Houthi's slogan contains the phrase 'Death to Israel and a curse upon Jews'. Hezbollah are attacking Israel from Lebanon. And they are all paid proxies for Iran.

I mean, you talk about how Israel has created the next generation of terrorists by its actions in Gaza, but Israel today is arguably the creation of the actions of the many people who would see it destroyed. Responsibility for the current situation goes both ways.