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To think everything will be unrecognisable in 50 years

364 replies

CurdinHenry · Today 11:38

Just thinking about how different the UK was in the 70s and how change is supercharged now by tech and mass migration and the loss of shared cultural reference points in TV and newspapers and radio.

I live in Glasgow and many parts of it are no longer at all Scottish-seeming apart from the old sandstone tenements. What even is Scottish any more? It's hard to imagine Scottish independence being taken up by the new communities. But what's next?

I think human societies are programmed to self destruct every so often in the absence of external numbers control pressures and I think that's what's starting now across Europe. We have never had it so good in the history of time yet rage flourishes

What can we do as individuals, I'm just not sure

OP posts:
ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:00

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 14:58

@Figtreegirl it's foolish how you scoff and deride British culture. It's just as ignorant as if you sniggered at Indian culture as not being real or definable simply because tikka masala and cricket came from Britain.

Of course they wouldn’t do that, because Indian people are generally not white. It’s reverse racism - all non whites are entitled to a culture that must be respected and protected at all costs. Ours is a ‘figment of our imagination’ to be sneered at and debased. It’s pathetic.

OooPourUsACupLove · Today 15:01

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 14:53

And what of previously fairly liberal Muslim countries that did offer opportunities, that fell to extreme Sharia?

They weren't Britain. They reversed progress they had made. The older skeletons were aleady there. Different histories.

You seem to have very little confidence in Britain and her people. Why is that?

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 15:02

OooPourUsACupLove · Today 14:53

I think you need to look a little deeper at the Japanese cultural place of women. It's certainly not Afghanistan, but there's a lot of hidden sexism and sexual abuse.

And if you or your daughter had to either live in Japan or live in a Muslim country then we all know which one you would pick my dear. You'd know the difference between them very well if push came to shove.

blondeseaside · Today 15:03

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 14:58

@Figtreegirl it's foolish how you scoff and deride British culture. It's just as ignorant as if you sniggered at Indian culture as not being real or definable simply because tikka masala and cricket came from Britain.

It is ONLY Britain that is not allowed to protect ,or be proud of it's culture. God forbid if you told anyone else to shove their flag in the bin. But when it's Britain, it's fine.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 15:04

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 14:58

@Figtreegirl it's foolish how you scoff and deride British culture. It's just as ignorant as if you sniggered at Indian culture as not being real or definable simply because tikka masala and cricket came from Britain.

I wouldn't ever attempt to define Indian culture either - and I would think anyone who attempted to define it in simple terms was a fool.

That doesn't mean that Indian culture doesn't exist. But there is no single agreed version of Indian culture which stays immutable over time.

Because that is not how cultures work.

Figtreegirl · Today 15:04

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 14:58

@Figtreegirl it's foolish how you scoff and deride British culture. It's just as ignorant as if you sniggered at Indian culture as not being real or definable simply because tikka masala and cricket came from Britain.

I'm not scoffing at culture. I'm scoffing at people who think they own it.

Badbadbunny · Today 15:04

CurdinHenry · Today 13:17

There wasn't an NHS at all 80 years ago. Barely anyone went to university or even left the area they were born.

People didn’t need to go to uni nor move away because there were local job opportunities!

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:04

OooPourUsACupLove · Today 15:01

They weren't Britain. They reversed progress they had made. The older skeletons were aleady there. Different histories.

You seem to have very little confidence in Britain and her people. Why is that?

It’s not Britain I have no confidence in. It’s other cultures that seek to influence it.

FouDeFafa · Today 15:06

Dappy777 · Today 13:44

Forget 50 years, it's over now. This is no longer a country. As two-tier Keir said, it's now an "island of strangers." The destructive, masochistic, hate-filled Left have used immigration as a tool to destroy national identity. Andrew Neather, a speechwriter for Blair, admitted that their plan was use immigration to "rub the right's nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date." Personally, I call that fascism – liberal fascism.

I no longer live in a nation with a shared history, shared culture, shared identity, etc. It's a joke. I wouldn't even fly the St George or the Union Jack in case someone threw a brick through my window. Our libraries and universities have been 'de-colonised' and even the literary canon is under attack. When I was young, I knew who I was. I was English-British. My history was the Battle of Britain and the tragedy of the Somme and the poetry of Wilfred Owen. It was Dickens and Jane Austen and Virginia Woolf. Now I no longer feel that way. I don't know who I am.

I hate the people who have done this to me. HATE them. I don't hate 'immigrants'. Certain groups I dislike, but I love the sweet Filipino nurse who lives next door, and the nice Punjabi lady who runs my local shop. It's a question of scale. The small island of Okinawa has its own distinct identity. If ten million white Swedes moved there, they would change the identity of Okinawa forever. It's as simple as 2 + 2 = 4. No one voted for mass immigration or multiculturalism. They were IMPOSED on us.

You’re right. It’s very sad.

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:07

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 15:04

I wouldn't ever attempt to define Indian culture either - and I would think anyone who attempted to define it in simple terms was a fool.

That doesn't mean that Indian culture doesn't exist. But there is no single agreed version of Indian culture which stays immutable over time.

Because that is not how cultures work.

😂

I wish you would just say what you want to say.

’Of course Britain has a culture. But I don’t like that culture, because I personally associate it with racism. So I’m going to pretend it doesn’t have a culture, while acknowledging and admiring cultures which execute people and force women into second class citizenship, while pretending they don’t do these things. Unless it’s the USA, they’re horrific’

Figtreegirl · Today 15:07

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 14:53

What a lazy and ignorant summery of British culture. How clever of you to cherry pick the 'royal family' and 'fish and chips' and laugh at the foolish British for thinking they had a culture. I don't think any of my ancestors in rural farming Norfolk, the crofters in the Scottish highlands, those in west Wales or those from county Kerry would have picked any of the things you mentioned as their culture, strangely enough. They knew what their culture was because they lived immersed it in every day and had for generations. We know what it was and is still.

Edited

We both make the same point, which is that different people experience different cultures at different times, and that some things change whilst others stay the same for some people and not others. Your culture, involving centuries old Norfolk things, is different to my culture, which involves different things. But we are all British. What I am immersed in culturally is different to the things you are, or my parents are/were. But we're all British. We have some things that unite us, but no constant fixed British culture.

BoredZelda · Today 15:08

ThePerfectStormBird · Today 14:47

It’s part of the plan. If we can be convinced English culture never existed then there’s nothing to preserve and nothing to miss.

Go on then, define it. What are our cultural values?

According to the U.K. government, they are defined as, Democracy, Rule of Law, Individual Liberty and Mutual Respect and Tolerance. If you ask anyone about the cultural values they will talk about queuing, not complaining and drinking tea.

Which of those values are disappearing? Which of those government defined values are not shared by most other nations?

People will bleat in about how we treat our women, and how that’s different in other cultures - as if we haven’t had a problem with VAWG for decades. It took us until 1991 to outlaw marital rape, long after many other countries did so. Anyone who wants to pretend there is no issue with the way women are treated, dismissed, disrespected by British men is wilfully ignorant or hugely naive.

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 15:08

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 14:59

I'm sorry, but you're showing your ignorance. There is no single, universally accepted, definitive scholarly account of what constitutes "British culture". Nor has "British culture" remained stable and immutable over time.

There are interpretations, observations and opinions. Points of agreement and points of disagreement. Things which remain stable and things which evolve and change over time. Aspects which are accepted by the majority and aspects that are accepted by smaller groups. Differences shaped by factors such as geography, history, identity and socio-economic class.

You are seeking to massively oversimplify something that is inherently complex. I understand why you want to do that. But it doesn't work.

No, you are now scrabbling around trying to find little hairs to split. Reread my message above where I used the term broadly speaking. And broadly speaking, whether you like it or not, Britain has a traditional culture. The same as every country in the world. You are now trying hide behind little caveats such as 'it changes over time' or 'regional differences', but these were all addressed and acknowledged to begin with and it makes no difference to the main point. I am sorry that you don't like Britain having a traditional culture. You still haven't explained to me whether your erroneous belief in this matter just extends to Britain alone or to all countries not having an indiginous culture?

Purplesproutingradiator · Today 15:09

Different isn't worse. Nothing stands still, nor should it. Older generations will always mourn the olden days, and younger generations will always be glad they didn't have to live through it themselves!

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:09

BoredZelda · Today 15:08

Go on then, define it. What are our cultural values?

According to the U.K. government, they are defined as, Democracy, Rule of Law, Individual Liberty and Mutual Respect and Tolerance. If you ask anyone about the cultural values they will talk about queuing, not complaining and drinking tea.

Which of those values are disappearing? Which of those government defined values are not shared by most other nations?

People will bleat in about how we treat our women, and how that’s different in other cultures - as if we haven’t had a problem with VAWG for decades. It took us until 1991 to outlaw marital rape, long after many other countries did so. Anyone who wants to pretend there is no issue with the way women are treated, dismissed, disrespected by British men is wilfully ignorant or hugely naive.

It’s not just ‘values’.

It’s our architecture, our beautiful native wildlife and flora, our crazy weather. All being destroyed by overpopulation.

OooPourUsACupLove · Today 15:10

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 15:02

And if you or your daughter had to either live in Japan or live in a Muslim country then we all know which one you would pick my dear. You'd know the difference between them very well if push came to shove.

I have no idea which I'd choose. There are a lot of Muslim countries, plenty of which I could work in. Japan is expensive, socially rigid and beyond a certain politeness, unwelcoming of foreigners. It would depend very much on the job and on which country. I'd certainly do proper research not just make a knee jerk decision based on the national religion 😂

BoredZelda · Today 15:11

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 14:50

How will she have freedom and opportunities if Sharia flourishes?

What is Sharia and which parts of it concern you if people choose to follow it. Also, where is the evidence it is ever going to be adopted in the U.K. writ large?

MsMacheath · Today 15:11

OooPourUsACupLove · Today 13:22

The people living in 50 years time (assuming we don't have total climate collapse and end of civilisation) will think being "Scottish" is what they see around them. Just as people 50 years ago had a different idea of "normal" and "change" to you. Most of what we understand as traditionally "Scottish" culture today was created during the 19th (possibly also 18th, I'm not sure) Scottish Nationalist revival.

Things change all the time. It's very human to see the state of things when we are growing up like some sort of fixed point that change happens to but it isn't, every time is just one moment in a river of ongoing change.

I thought the other day, walking down my high street which is one of the most multicultural in the UK, in 50 years time Britain may not be considered a white country any more. And you know what? I realised I don't care. I feel just as connected to a future Britain that isn't mostly white as I do to one that is. It will still be Britain. It will still be that story, moving on and changing as it always has. There are cultural moments in my neighbourhood that are uniquely British now because there are children growing up together as neighbours from cultures that would never have met if they were tied to geography rather than all here at this exact point in time.

All that we need to do to qualify for our place in the story is to be here and be part of it.

in 50 years time Britain may not be considered a white country any more. And you know what? I realised I don't care

If it resembles Japan or South Korea, Great. If it resembles Afghanistan, Iran or Pakistan I'm glad I'll be dead.

hdr.undp.org/data-center/thematic-composite-indices/gender-inequality-index#/indicies/GII

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:13

BoredZelda · Today 15:11

What is Sharia and which parts of it concern you if people choose to follow it. Also, where is the evidence it is ever going to be adopted in the U.K. writ large?

If you’re going to play dumb by insisting every basic term is strictly defined and explained to the extent it totally derails the discussion, I’m not going to play ball.

Your post is beyond offensive to women in Afghanistan. Not that they can read it, as they’re not allowed to.

MsMacheath · Today 15:14

BoredZelda · Today 15:11

What is Sharia and which parts of it concern you if people choose to follow it. Also, where is the evidence it is ever going to be adopted in the U.K. writ large?

I expect women in Iran pre the revolution thought the same as you? How could this happen?

ThePerfectStormBird · Today 15:14

LittleRobins · Today 14:54

These are simply the changes we are seeing in our lifetime. Throughout history people have hated change with towns turning into cities, industrialisation, the building of canals and railways, the introduction of aeroplanes etc etc. We don’t have to like it but change is inevitable.

Fuck it then I guess. Why are any of us bothering to raise our kids with manners or go to work and pay our taxes. We may as well just burn it all down and leave the ashes behind us.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 15:14

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 15:08

No, you are now scrabbling around trying to find little hairs to split. Reread my message above where I used the term broadly speaking. And broadly speaking, whether you like it or not, Britain has a traditional culture. The same as every country in the world. You are now trying hide behind little caveats such as 'it changes over time' or 'regional differences', but these were all addressed and acknowledged to begin with and it makes no difference to the main point. I am sorry that you don't like Britain having a traditional culture. You still haven't explained to me whether your erroneous belief in this matter just extends to Britain alone or to all countries not having an indiginous culture?

Edited

Where have I said that I don't like Britain having a traditional culture? On the contrary, I like many traditional aspects of British culture. I simply disagree with you that there is one single immutable version of this.

And I have already said above, I don't believe that there is a single immutable, indisputable version of any culture. As any anthropolgist would tell you.

But since you are so determined, please do point me to the single definitive source in which British culture has been codified. I would be fascinated to know what you are pointing to as your ultimate source.

ilovesooty · Today 15:14

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:00

Of course they wouldn’t do that, because Indian people are generally not white. It’s reverse racism - all non whites are entitled to a culture that must be respected and protected at all costs. Ours is a ‘figment of our imagination’ to be sneered at and debased. It’s pathetic.

That's a ridiculous statement.

OooPourUsACupLove · Today 15:14

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:04

It’s not Britain I have no confidence in. It’s other cultures that seek to influence it.

You don't seem to have any confidence we are solid enough to handle that without bans and restrictions on the people you fear.

It's ironic really. The people who claim to value British culture the most have the least confidence in its ability to evolve and endure.

aphroditeflighty · Today 15:15

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