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To think everything will be unrecognisable in 50 years

347 replies

CurdinHenry · Today 11:38

Just thinking about how different the UK was in the 70s and how change is supercharged now by tech and mass migration and the loss of shared cultural reference points in TV and newspapers and radio.

I live in Glasgow and many parts of it are no longer at all Scottish-seeming apart from the old sandstone tenements. What even is Scottish any more? It's hard to imagine Scottish independence being taken up by the new communities. But what's next?

I think human societies are programmed to self destruct every so often in the absence of external numbers control pressures and I think that's what's starting now across Europe. We have never had it so good in the history of time yet rage flourishes

What can we do as individuals, I'm just not sure

OP posts:
ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:15

OooPourUsACupLove · Today 15:14

You don't seem to have any confidence we are solid enough to handle that without bans and restrictions on the people you fear.

It's ironic really. The people who claim to value British culture the most have the least confidence in its ability to evolve and endure.

Have you said this to Native Americans? That their culture was simply too weak to survive?

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:15

ilovesooty · Today 15:14

That's a ridiculous statement.

Prove me wrong.

ilovesooty · Today 15:16

blondeseaside · Today 15:03

It is ONLY Britain that is not allowed to protect ,or be proud of it's culture. God forbid if you told anyone else to shove their flag in the bin. But when it's Britain, it's fine.

So what is this culture people in Britain aren't allowed to protect? I assume it's more complex than flags?

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 15:17

BoredZelda · Today 15:08

Go on then, define it. What are our cultural values?

According to the U.K. government, they are defined as, Democracy, Rule of Law, Individual Liberty and Mutual Respect and Tolerance. If you ask anyone about the cultural values they will talk about queuing, not complaining and drinking tea.

Which of those values are disappearing? Which of those government defined values are not shared by most other nations?

People will bleat in about how we treat our women, and how that’s different in other cultures - as if we haven’t had a problem with VAWG for decades. It took us until 1991 to outlaw marital rape, long after many other countries did so. Anyone who wants to pretend there is no issue with the way women are treated, dismissed, disrespected by British men is wilfully ignorant or hugely naive.

Cultural values are one aspect of many in traditional culture.

Yes values and beliefs but also social etiquette, manners, customs, traditions, language, communication style, social class systems, social and family structures, religion, history, heritage, national indentity. There so many aspects! Food, drink, recreation, sports, arts, literature, politics, festivals, celebrations, clothing, beauty standards, civic duty, governance, architecture, community, social life, education, work ethic, the natural environment... Humour!!!

To try and narrow the conversation down to cultural values would not be helpful.

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:17

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 15:14

Where have I said that I don't like Britain having a traditional culture? On the contrary, I like many traditional aspects of British culture. I simply disagree with you that there is one single immutable version of this.

And I have already said above, I don't believe that there is a single immutable, indisputable version of any culture. As any anthropolgist would tell you.

But since you are so determined, please do point me to the single definitive source in which British culture has been codified. I would be fascinated to know what you are pointing to as your ultimate source.

If something has to be codified to exist then you can’t believe in anything that is not tangible. So I assume you also don’t believe in manners, love, charity, hope, or culture not related to geography, such as gay culture? None of it exist as it’s not codified in a document somewhere? Does our constitution not exist either, as it isn’t written down?

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 15:17

There was a fab thread recently about people's favourite aspects of quintessential British culture. It was wonderful!

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:18

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 15:17

Cultural values are one aspect of many in traditional culture.

Yes values and beliefs but also social etiquette, manners, customs, traditions, language, communication style, social class systems, social and family structures, religion, history, heritage, national indentity. There so many aspects! Food, drink, recreation, sports, arts, literature, politics, festivals, celebrations, clothing, beauty standards, civic duty, governance, architecture, community, social life, education, work ethic, the natural environment... Humour!!!

To try and narrow the conversation down to cultural values would not be helpful.

None of that exists, because it isn’t in an exhaustive list 😉

ilovesooty · Today 15:18

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:15

Prove me wrong.

You made the statement. You prove it.

PammyPrang · Today 15:18

XenaSharples · Today 14:24

I'd like to think that the normalisation of more diverse looking people everywhere will put an end to racism, although it probably won't.

Do you think that “diverse looking people” can’t be racist? Well, in the words of some who haunt these threads, “educate yourself”. There is huge animosity and conflict between different immigrant groups. Last year there was violence between Muslims and Sikhs in Leicester (I think). That’s small fry compared with the rival gang conflicts in France, especially in schools.

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:18

ilovesooty · Today 15:18

You made the statement. You prove it.

This thread is proving it nicely.

TiredShadows · Today 15:20

A lot likely will be different, I don't think it will be everything.

There are folktales going back centuries around British locations that people can still see today. Plenty of examples of British cultures that are too often undervalued and easily overlooked.

We will need to get through the population bulge, and that will be painful, much of it because those in power keep kicking the can down the road on ways to minimise the pain in that shift of following generations being smaller.

The destructive, masochistic, hate-filled Left have used immigration as a tool to destroy national identity.

And the Right Tories who brought in the Boris-wave used immigration as a tool to maximise profits for themselves and their ilk while pretending to be against immigration. We had a Tory Chancellor say in Parliament that the immigration system was 'for-profit'.

Both Labour and Tory governments have used immigration to sow conflict and distract from their lack of and poor infrastructure investments, their inflating the state institutions for their own benefit, their messing around at the edges to pretend to care about an issue rather than caring about themselves.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 15:21

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 15:17

Cultural values are one aspect of many in traditional culture.

Yes values and beliefs but also social etiquette, manners, customs, traditions, language, communication style, social class systems, social and family structures, religion, history, heritage, national indentity. There so many aspects! Food, drink, recreation, sports, arts, literature, politics, festivals, celebrations, clothing, beauty standards, civic duty, governance, architecture, community, social life, education, work ethic, the natural environment... Humour!!!

To try and narrow the conversation down to cultural values would not be helpful.

But many of those things have changed massively over time - they are not fixed, immutable things, they evolve.

Would you want to go back to living according to Victorian social norms? What about Elizabethan ones? If not,, why not?

ilovesooty · Today 15:21

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:07

😂

I wish you would just say what you want to say.

’Of course Britain has a culture. But I don’t like that culture, because I personally associate it with racism. So I’m going to pretend it doesn’t have a culture, while acknowledging and admiring cultures which execute people and force women into second class citizenship, while pretending they don’t do these things. Unless it’s the USA, they’re horrific’

What gives you the right to make that assumption? That's a personal attack in my book.

BoredZelda · Today 15:21

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:09

It’s not just ‘values’.

It’s our architecture, our beautiful native wildlife and flora, our crazy weather. All being destroyed by overpopulation.

What is being destroyed? We have systems in place to protect that. The crazy weather has nothing to do with migration to the U.K. There is no over population, Reform are trying to convince us to have more babies.

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:22

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 15:21

But many of those things have changed massively over time - they are not fixed, immutable things, they evolve.

Would you want to go back to living according to Victorian social norms? What about Elizabethan ones? If not,, why not?

Some of them, yes. Beautiful architecture. Amazing inventions. The Christmas tree!

I feel sad that you clearly have such a hard time immersing yourself in culture and recognising it for what it is, rather than reducing it to merely a musical instrument or a building.

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:23

BoredZelda · Today 15:21

What is being destroyed? We have systems in place to protect that. The crazy weather has nothing to do with migration to the U.K. There is no over population, Reform are trying to convince us to have more babies.

According to data from the
Natural History Museum's Biodiversity Intactness Index (BII), the UK is one of the world's most nature-depleted countries, ranking 189th out of 240 countries and territories for biodiversity health. 1]
Only 53% of the UK’s original nature remains intact, which sits far below the global average of 79% and the index's "safe limit" of 90%.

The landmark State of Nature report and other recent ecological studies outline severe long-term trends:

  • Extinction Risks: One in six species (16%) surveyed in Great Britain is at risk of extinction. This risk skyrockets for specific groups, threatening 43% of birds, 31% of amphibians and reptiles, and 26% of land mammals. 1, 2]
  • Species Loss & Abundance: The average abundance of terrestrial and freshwater species has dropped by 18% since 1970. 1]
  • Flora and Insects: More than half of all flowering plants (54%) have vanished from areas where they used to thrive. Crucial pollinators like bees, hoverflies, and moths have seen an average decline of 18%.
Gmhopkins · Today 15:23

I agree that Glasgow is less Scottish than ever before. The Celts have always been the majority for thousands of years and this culture was recognisably Scottish but now there is a more international feeling from it, it could be any city in the world. It’s sad to see how most cities are alike these days. Their is very little difference between any of them, whether I’m in Asia, Europe or America- I travel a lot in these continents and the way cheap takeaway and throwaway consumerism has taken over cities

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 15:25

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 15:14

Where have I said that I don't like Britain having a traditional culture? On the contrary, I like many traditional aspects of British culture. I simply disagree with you that there is one single immutable version of this.

And I have already said above, I don't believe that there is a single immutable, indisputable version of any culture. As any anthropolgist would tell you.

But since you are so determined, please do point me to the single definitive source in which British culture has been codified. I would be fascinated to know what you are pointing to as your ultimate source.

How could there be an ultimate source? Probably the best source is the collective indigenous people who chose to preserve and pass on their culture. But I'm afraid I cannot give you a link for that. On a very granular level, my grandmother taught me to sing Be Thou my Vision, which her grandmother sang to her. My children can sing that hymn, and a great many other traditional hymns and folk songs from all over Britain and I will make sure my future grandchildren can too. Would you like to look up how old the hymn 'Be Thou my Vision' is? Perhaps it's not multicultural enough for you.
I don't know what your heritage is and it doesn't matter, this land is a rich trove of many hundreds of years of beautiful culture. And those who prefer to cackle derisively and dimiss our culture and heritage as fish and chips and the royal family, they are all the poorer for that.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 15:26

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:18

This thread is proving it nicely.

I've already said that there can be no single definition of Indian culture.

The "culture" of rural farming communities in Northern India is worlds away from, for example, the culture of the metropolitan elite in Mumbai.

They are both versions of "Indian culture". And there will be many more versions besides.

OooPourUsACupLove · Today 15:26

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:15

Have you said this to Native Americans? That their culture was simply too weak to survive?

Again, different time, different history. Equating British Muslims (you do realise there are far more cultures in Britain than "Muslim" and indigenous Brit, right?) with 17th, 18th and 19th century European colonisers just makes you look daft.

Now if you'd said "their firepower was simply too weak" you'd have a valid point.

Sunflowermoonbeam · Today 15:27

Yawn....yet another blantantly right wing racist/xenophobic post dressed up as 'boo hoo the UK is in crisis'

Sahara123 · Today 15:27

CurdinHenry · Today 12:09

Er because of the country being borderline bankrupt, three days weeks, doing homework by candlelight when the power was off.

Didn't sound fab...

I know . I was there ! I don’t remember ever doing my homework by candlelight! My point was that every decade has its issues, we live through it and move on.

ilovesooty · Today 15:27

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:18

This thread is proving it nicely.

I'll take that as you can't then.

ExtraHotDoubleShot · Today 15:28

OooPourUsACupLove · Today 15:26

Again, different time, different history. Equating British Muslims (you do realise there are far more cultures in Britain than "Muslim" and indigenous Brit, right?) with 17th, 18th and 19th century European colonisers just makes you look daft.

Now if you'd said "their firepower was simply too weak" you'd have a valid point.

Always different for Britain, isn’t it?

SiegfriedSassoon · Today 15:29

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · Today 15:26

I've already said that there can be no single definition of Indian culture.

The "culture" of rural farming communities in Northern India is worlds away from, for example, the culture of the metropolitan elite in Mumbai.

They are both versions of "Indian culture". And there will be many more versions besides.

Wrong again, there is a overall traditional Indian culture. The fact that you can then start to separate it into different time periods and regions and compare and contrast the differences makes no difference to the greater truth. That would be like looking a painting by Seurat with a magnifying glass and saying that there is no greater picture. You know this, but you don't want to admit it.

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