To absolutely hate this government, and what they are doing to our country? PART 2

You read all that from one simple sentence?

They can react to it all they want. If we pass primary legislation taking us out of it, there's not much they can do

It’s difficult but not impossible, although the French elections could be a factor. If Bardella does agree with his party, if they get, in returning the people to France would stop crossings.

Outside that it’s difficult but doable. Australia had similar objections to those out here but after putting in policy no party will run on changing it. The centre left is in now with that same policy.

I notice you asked for my response to your 'cold hard' facts. @Brudffaa, but now have nothing to say.

They can stay on their perch for now. It won't be happening under this government, that's for sure.

Watching France - with interest.

What are they?

Instead of just saying I am looking at the wrong things, why not consider my proposal and answer the question. Would it help ? Yes or no ?

We have to explore things to get to the root cause, or significant contributors to it.

I think Farage and pals yelling " FREE THINGS" is a significant draw. Do you agree with that?

And if you disagree, then why do you disagree with it.

I personally will not be celebrating if a party founded by neo-fascists and former members of the SS rises to power in modern Europe, and I find the image of Farage sharing a stage with Bardella grotesque.

On Australia, clearly geographically their circumstances are very different to ours - any push back operations there are happening in vast open water, not a congested shipping channel. But if lives at sea could genuinely be saved, then maybe it should be explored. But mobs of protestors shouting 'let them drown' makes it hard to imagine that that is what those advocating for 'push back' policies over here really care about.

Most people would not vote to go back to what we have now if Australia’s system was used. Incidentally it has been said the crossing distance was further but now with Channel crossings from much further away it’s about the same.

The boat last week was in the sea for 30 hours.

If the Australia system is working so well, why is it not used in the UK or Europe?

A quick look at a map would give some clues.

Can you say more about the distance of the recent crossings and those to Australia

People have a misconception it’s much further.

The reason isn’t what you say, it’s that they have their own court system.

Yes. And this is the thing about preventative action. For so many things, its is just really difficult to measure. If not impossible.

And the only way to really know if preventative measures work, is to not do them. I wonder how that would work out if the government do nothing ? Would small boat crossings go up ? I would casually say yes. Based on the data and news.

And as you say, if the preventative measures that can legally be done do not get the results you want, look at other options.

As an example of impossible to measure. Teen DD went to a birthday party earlier. She is a bit sick with sniffles, so she decided to wear a mask, to try not to spread it. A preventative measure. Did it work ? Impossible to tell if none of her pals also come down sick.

Measuring prevention can be really difficult.

In real life, I find people are not preoccupied with this issue, and certainly the protests are not well attended. So perhaps this would be disproportionate.

I wish I could say the same, @5128gap . A (previously apolitical) in-law has become utterly obsessed with it following the opening of asylum seeker accommodation close to where she lives and goes on marches and everything. MIL is always going on about it, too (the "country's full up", apparently, despite there being 30 miles of mostly open countryside between our homes), my NDN was unhappy that a couple from Senegal had moved into the house backing onto ours and one BIL & SIL moved away from south London to somewhere semi-rural because "immigrants".

A family member blames immigrants for the fact that their daughter can't get a council house, when the actual reasons are that she's in a perfectly fine private rental and she hasn't lived in the same borough for long enough to go on the housing register.

Thankfully, none of my friends are like that.

From what I understood, I thought naval commanders were of the opinion that manoeuvring fragile, crowded dinghies on the rough, crowded seas of the channel was likely to cause capsizing and mass casualties. But if that has changed, then perhaps there is a sensible, pragmatic conversation to be had about the safest way to turn boats back in a way that protects, rather than costs lives.

But you must understand how hard it is to have any pragmatic, compassionate discussion about this when people are minimising a man convicted of knife crimes bringing a knife to a mass gathering as if it’s legitimate protest; and arguing that government statistics are made up; and spouting bizarre conspiracy theories that the government are somehow, for some unspecified reason deliberately letting the people trafficking continue.

Well no. I did say " Who do you think the "some" are that is a game to?",

and then I hypothesized. You could just answer the question I asked. Or perhaps when you post "it's all a game to them" you could have expanded in that just a little to say who it is a game to.

It is a theme in this thread after all. The whole thing of mistruths, and understanding what people are saying.

@LakieLady - Not all land is suitable for building on. Plus you have to look at the effect that building more and more houses plus extra schools, roads, hospitals, GP surgeries etc has on wildlife and our eco system.

There are already 69-70 million people in this country. When do you say enough? 80 million, 90 million, 100 million?

And there won't be much anyone will be able to do about anything if they take us out of ECHR, as many do.

Nobody will have a right to.

The birth rate is falling and the biggest generation will be gone in the next 20/25 years. I won’t be here to see it but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the welcome mat is out for immigrants at that point.

Yes perhaps Wales and Scotland but England has one of the highest population density figures in Europe, bar micro states.

It’s all centred in specific areas. I live on the edge of the Fens which is underpopulated.

On this the similarities are high. Small boats, massively overcrowded, not seaworthy, often causing deaths at sea. Rough water and about the same distance now Channel crossings are from further away.

Although I will add most crossings here are when it’s calmer anyway.

@EasternStandard I appreciate your response, thankyou. But again my understanding is the British navy are against using push back techniques. So, to me this is another example of how on the surface there may seem to be an easy solution but the realities are much more difficult and complex.

Fundamentally, I believe malign actors are pretending there’s an obvious solution to the migrant crisis in order to fuel hatred and division and I simply do not think we should let them.

I don't think being poor ever excuses murder and the taking of another life? Do you?

Yes Wales has 150 people per square km compared to England at 435 people per square km. The lowest populated area in England is the south west at 239 people per square km, so still much higher than Wales.
Wales also has far fewer asylum seekers, and far fewer residents who were born abroad (7% Wales, 17% England).