To be disappointed Dolly Parton supported biological men using women's toilets?

They get paid minimum wage and are run off their feet. Please send me a job advert for "toilet monitor" in a UK supermarket along with the job description, wage and maybe some disclaimer that they won't be arrested for asking people either to show their birth certificates to have a pee or show their genitals.

Exactly. At best it’s cctv that is retrospective.

Thats why having a small amount of surveillance is useful. Like the cubicle door gaps permitted in single sex toilet environments.

This safety feature is not permitted in ‘gender neutral’ designs ie universal design.

Every toilet has to be universal design if everyone is allowed in each toilet.

‘They have a name for this faux, selective responses that are not in good faith. Other than disingenuous.’

Quite. Always seem to be obsessed with genitals too. As if one cant tell the sex of a person without looking at their genitals. Very weird.

You can't always tell. Even if you pretend you've got an inbuilt radar.
Very weird that you would pretend otherwise.

Up close and personal and if they spoke. I’d bet my last mars bar you can. There’s obviously exceptions to every rule but I’ve never been in doubt what sex someone is when speaking to them.

I’ve met Katie Dolatowski, there’s nothing female about him, and even the most ardent TWAW allies wouldn’t in a month of Sundays leave their children in his company.

@Differentforgirls

Why should "toilet monitors" be needed?

What should happen is that women have said no to TiMs in their toilets that should be enough.

And if you need a reason why so many TiMs are called predators its because no means no, anyone that doesn't respect that especially with regards to a single sex space is a predator.

@BIossomtoesI am not one of "the latest generation of women@. I'm 58.

Feminists are concerned with the rights/protections of women, not men.

And this thread began by talking about Dolly Parton and trans rights. That's the focus. We can talk about another topic of concern to feminists - start a new thread if you want!

If you are trying to say I'm a failure as a feminist because we are here discussing trans rights and the clash with women's rights then jog on.

Time's up for TIMs. The more women speak up and say no thank you the sooner this will end.

Women need to make clear that men need to make space for TIMs. They are not our responsibility.

Where and when did I say that? It was a general post about feminism. It’s not all about you. At 58 you’re slightly older than my son so definitely a different generation to me.

Time's up for TIMs

the sooner this will end

What do you mean by that, exactly?
You think people being trans will "just end?"
I'm not trans but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that, however much you might want it to. 🙄

Scene: Someone points out that a child was sexually assaulted by a predatory man, taking the opportunity to encroach upon spaces where the girl would be in a state of undress/ maybe alone, and vulnerable to his attack. And where he certainly shouldn’t have been hanging around. The response is an Alan Partridge shrug. On repeat.

Remember that Gisele Pelicot’s husband was caught by a security guard filming up women’s skirts in a supermarket. A supermarket no less, where it appears some think nobody should be noticing any red flag, creepy, pervy behaviour by men. The police were called, and then when they examined his devices and hard drives, they discovered the long history of mass rapes. My goodness, it is a good thing that security guard was a decent person (and not an enabler or apologist for pervs), and didn’t shrug his shoulders and say ‘I can’t be doing with this, I’ve enough to do and am run off my feet doing other things. Dealing with upskirting is not in my job description.’

Let’s not do the fake naïveté that men change sex. ‘Oh, do you mean a man, or a man who says he is a woman. Because they are completely different.’ That is just stupid talk.

Quite. Trans and non binary identities have existed pretty much forever over human history. They’re not going anywhere any time soon even if some people would prefer they no longer exist.

Hyperbole. No one has said they shouldn’t or don’t exist. But humans can’t change sex. Men can’t become women and vice versa. Women deserve the right to spaces way from men, however they identify.

Anorexic people exist, deserve empathy and treatment, but they aren’t fat though and no one should be compelled to believe they are.

Same rules apply.

Anorexic people exist, deserve empathy and treatment, but they aren’t fat though and no one should be compelled to believe they are.

They think they are. You must find Shakespeare and Virginia Woolf incredibly problematic.

That’s the point - they think they are. But they aren’t.

No, I don’t, at all, why would I, they are fiction. See the theme here?

Still can’t articulate why women don’t deserve SSS?

You’ve spent this entire thread telling me I can’t articulate x, y and z. Can you tell how tired of it I am?

If you could articulate it I wouldn’t have to say you couldn’t. Why engage then? Given the topic it’s bizarre.

Not as tired as me at the sound bites and comments that don’t really say anything about the topic at hand.

And yet you continue to engage with me. Can and will are different incidentally. I certainly can but I’m not going to indulge you.

You responded to me! 🤷‍♀️🤣

So you’re saying trans people can still continue to exist, identifying as the gender they align with. Some people don’t think this.

Yes. Because no one ever breaks the law. That’s why we don’t have things called prisons.🤦‍♀️

I love her even more now!

Of course. But single sex adherence is necessary by law in certain circumstances.

@Differentforgirls re prisons. Lots of men break the law in toilets. Look back at my posts. That’s why we have regulations, sexual offence law, legislation and standards that try and mitigate against harm in toilets. In prison you will find men who have committed the worst offences.

There’s not much appetite for prosecuting men having consensual sex with men in toilets like there was in the 80s and 90s when hundreds were prosecuted (in what would be unthinkable nowadays, police laid traps and even drilled holes in ceilings to photograph men), but it’s still illegal. The more modern answer to cottaging (Victorians built toilets to resemble cottages) is to close all the toilets down. This affects women, the elderly and disabled more. Estimates reckon we’ve lost more public toilets than we’ve retained from misuse (sex, drugs and vandalism) and the cost of maintaining them. The above isn’t homophobic, it’s factual.

Now provision in venues and businesses is relied on more for public sanitation. There are even certain community schemes run by the council for this. There’s still a lot of urinating in the streets (not something you can go to prison for unless there’s other factors, but you can be fined). But there always were men aiming at buildings (it’s why many buildings have urine deflectors like the Bank of England).

Now on to men in women’s toilets. I have so many examples. However I will concentrate on some examples that are relevant to this thread.
For example, this man who said he was a transwoman:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ian-wright-british-transport-police-birmingham-crown-court-b2286717.html
And this man who said he identified as a woman:
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/paedophile-secretly-filmed-women-public-28737673.amp

Since the Supreme Court made it clear women’s toilets were always for women, these men no longer can argue that being a transwoman (albeit for the time they are in the women’s toilets) means they have access to women’s toilets. Women are very reticent to speak out. It has made it much easier now - the amount of protesting has handily made it crystal clear to everybody. It makes it safer for everyone as single sex toilets can retain the safest designs.