To be disappointed Dolly Parton supported biological men using women's toilets?

Because males commit 99.5% of all sexual assaults and 100% of rapes. And “transwomen” are male.
Why do women have single sex spaces? Why are Oxfam fighting to implement single sex spaces in India and Pakistan? Are they transphobic? Are Oxfam wrong to say no males should be in female spaces?

We agree that men (I would say cis men) are the biggest threat to cis women. Guess who else they’re the biggest threat to? Trans women.

Men who want to harass / assault women in toilets don’t need to go to the trouble of disguising themselves as trans women to do so.

They’re just men. We can’t tell the nice ones from the bad ones until it’s too late. Cosplaying men included. Nice men also have to stay out of women’s spaces FYI for privacy and dignity reasons. Trans women don’t automatically get absolved of risk because they deem themselves to be women. The last two trans women I met were sex offenders incidentally.

You’re statistically unlikely to ever get burgled in your lifetime but I bet you still lock your doors at night. If a burglar wanted to burgle you they’ll do it anyway hey. It’s called safeguarding.

Male violence upon other males is not a women problem to solve. Campaign for males to be more accepting of gender non conforming males in their spaces.

Katie Dolatowski assaulted a 10 year old girl in a supermarket toilet.

Transwomen. What sex does a person have to be to be in that ideology to be regarded as a transwoman? Common or garden male is the answer. So the question I suppose is why males coming in and out of women’s toilets, or other confined spaces where women are undressed or vulnerable, could possibly present any danger to the women and girls using said space. Males commit the vast majority of all sex offences, and the majority of their victims are female. That is over the comfort and dignity aspect.

Then, as you say, if the design was changed, I think Keeptoilessafe outlines the problems that eschewing the more considered safety measures can cause.

‘Male violence upon males is not a women’s problem to solve’. I presume by ‘upon males’ you mean ‘upon trans women’.

Well, I believe in solidarity; I do care about people that aren’t exactly the same as me. I’m more than happy to make room and be a part of solving problems / making life easier for a marginalised group of people.

Are you suggesting that people are as likely to be attacked in a loo specifically by a trans women as they are for their house to burgled? 😂 I think the numbers there are unlikely to add up for you!!

It doesn’t matter what you want, consent isn’t transferable. If you want to use mixed spaces with trans women - men - then crack on. The majority want to keep single sex spaces exactly that (there’s various polls, Google is easy to use so I was told earlier on in the thread). Trans people have the same rights as anyone else.

Can you give me any stats on the amount of trans women attacked by men in toilets? Ive yet to read of one. And no, if you read my post properly that’s not what I said. Have an emoji back 🙄

What is a “cis” man? What is the difference between a male with a trans identity and one without? Why should one be allowed in female spaces and one not?

if males are “unsafe” in male facilities that’s on males to sort out. not women’s problem.

True men don’t need to go to the trouble of “pretending to be trans” to attack women. . But if men are just going to assault women in female spaces anyway, it won’t make any difference if we exclude TIM will it? Surely if men are going around attacking women in female spaces, then TIM would be in just as much danger in those female spaces as in male ones. So they can just use male ones as the risk is the same.

I think we’ve been on this merry go round before too. From statistics on convicted male prisoners (in England and Wales, methinks, but could be wrong): Those males who claim a female identity, have proportionately higher rates of convictions for sex offences than other male cohorts. Not lower, not even the same, but higher.

So, I wouldn’t be saying any male jumps into the female statistics for sex offences and rapes. Or indeed any other violent crime. There was that Swedish study which showed no drop in typical male crimes for men who claimed to be women. No different from other men.

You brought up burglary as though it was a comparable thing in terms of probability / how I would want to manage risk. I’m glad you accept it isn’t, because it was a very silly.

It’s very clear that NEITHER of us speak for all women. I don’t, but nor do you.

How are TIM marginalised? They are males, members of a sex class that has oppressed women throughout history. As humans cannot change sex, they remain members if thst class so cannot be marginalised .

So what material benefit do women get from making all their spaces mixed sex (which is what you are advocating for)? We’ve heard a lot about the benefits for TIM, but what about the benefits to women? What do they get in exchange for giving up their sex based rights?

There are all sorts of ways trans people are marginalized - access to housing and employment, more likely to victims of physical violence, social stigma, family rejection, access to health care…. but you know all this!

I brought it up as an example of safeguarding, you presumably lock your doors despite being unlikely to get burgled. Single sex spaces are also a safeguarding measure, despite the very unlikely chance of getting attacked in a toilet. I’m sorry that clearly went over your head.

I know, I don’t. I’m not trying to give away women’s sex based rights. You are. Luckily the law agrees with me.

I didn’t mention trans rights. My point was a general one. Any point of disagreement and the latest generation of women insist that you can’t be a feminist because you don’t conform to its cookie cutter definition. It’s just as repressive as the patriarchy.

Your response to me is illuminating though. It’s exactly this narrow lens I object to. There’s more to feminism and women’s rights than the trans issue.

I don’t need a treat for helping someone else.

TIM marginalised? Quite the opposite, isn’t it? Women are being suspended from their work (and attempts to shut them up by shaming them), when men are getting their c&cks out in the middle of women, or a lone woman, getting changed And, also being allowed to get a good eyeful of women as they shower and change. All without the women’s consent, and indeed against their protestations to the organisations facilitating these men to commit what could possibly be called sex offences against women.

Men who engaged in peeping and flashing used to be quite rightly be outed as a pervert in the past. Now his victim is being told to shut up, and basically facilitate these men.

So none then. Just #bekind and budge up wims and help the men. Why? Why should women do this? Are you suggesting women should give up their sex based rights to “be nice”? What about men? Why are they not expected to “be nice” and support their GNC brethren?

You are the only one making out like women on the FWR board only care about ‘trans issues’. It’s a male issue, but you’ve been told that a million times. If you include men in the definition of women, then other feminist issues are fucked and meaningless.

The clue is also in the board title - sex and gender discussions. I wonder what gets discussed there then. It’s like going onto a board on animals and complaining that users are only discussing dogs on the dog sub thread.

There’s a feminism board, are you ever there? Being a ‘second wave’ feminist how many discussions have you started there?

True. Very true. But if you can’t define a woman, how can you fight for their rights?

But they chose to transition. If they have consequences that’s on them.

I know you think this is a gotcha, but I actually DON’T think being kind is bad! 😮

Here we go again. It’s an obsession.

Why do the feelings of men get prioritised over the feelings of women who don’t want them in their spaces and sports teams?

It’s the most valid point. You can’t fight for women’s rights and oppression on the very basis of their sex if that definition now includes men. Grassroots stuff. You just prefer to scold.