How would you have handled this? SEND toddler in community centre.

I'm truely sorry to hear thar, Just from my experience with my daughter I have some idea how challenging it must be for you. Like other posters have said, where possible and practical I do remove my daughter when she's having a meltdown. I'd certainly do whatever I could to If it were apparent to me that my daughter's noise was causing distress to someone.

I think Mum's generally get defensive when it seems someone finds their child to be an annoyance rather than is actually experiencing problems

2 buses to get to nursery?
that sounds a nightmare, is there nothing nearer?

The teenager doesn't have the right to silence in a community centre. The library is the place to go for that.

People with profound autism can make loud noises, including when they are happy. They have every right to access and be part of the community too.

🙄

The teenager wasn't expecting silence though. Screaming isn't an acceptable level of noise, especially when prolonged 5 mins+. That's a a very long time for OP not to have taken the toddler out of the environment where screaming is not appropriate.

One of mine was getting overwhelmed in a café last week. It was all too hot, too loud, sun in their eyes, food not coming fast enough. They weren't screaming but they were getting agitated and I could see it building and about to become a problem. We told the waitress we'd be outside if she wouldn't mind bringing our food out, got fresh air, sat on a bench, and ate our food there. They can't control their actions, but as a parent, I can control our response to the situation to be respectful to the circumstances.

Or as others have stated on this thread, (because this child has SEN) I didn't see the start of behaviour that would impact others users in the environment and act like a considerate member of society by parenting my child and removing them from the area in question. No, I think you'll find we didn't simply sit on a bench and it was quite nice, I in fact dragged them to eat outdoors like cattle because of the inconvenience they might cause others. And apparently this eating lunch on a bench is also vile. My child and I have the right to be there in the café, entitled to yell and thrash about and accidentally kick tables, knock others cups on the floor. Everyone else should leave if they have a problem with that. But just to add if it's one of my NT children, then I should be doing something about it and we should of course, leave.

Thank you 👏🏻

SEND children are allowed in public places too, even if they are a temporary inconvenience to others. Honestly some of these responses make me feel like people think we should just keep our disabled children out of sight?

As do those with autism who get triggered by that noise

Thank you. That is such a thoughtful post, I appreciate it 💐

It’s not so much “as an adult” but more “as the more able person”. Now at some point you could say that your disability is impacting you more than another’s and need to make a different decision. In the scenario you present you ARE accessing work. This child has yet to access nursery and her mother has already exhausted other options. Do you really think your needs are greater in this instance?

OP says My child was rejected from two nurseries on account of her needs. I don't drive. I am solo parenting at the moment. The nursery is in a residential area with no cafes within walking distance. this is often the case with disabled children (and adults). Choices are more limited and often not really a choice at all. Anyone making the trek with a baby as well really feels their child needs this nursery. I think OP deserves a pat on the back not to be made to feel she “could do better”.

Agreed. Toddler tantrums are infamous - they're called the terrible twos (and threes!) for a reason.

So I don't think it's a question of the woman judging your child for kicking off when she should have more understanding for SEN etc.

I think she was judging your reaction to the screaming, hinting that you should take her outside or to a different space, whether or not she has SEN.

The question is, is that reasonable? I'd say depends on the space. Has it been booked by the tutor? Is there a smaller side-area you could go to? Have you asked whoever is running it (the woman?) if there's somewhere else you could go to feed your toddler? She might be happy to offer you a back room somewhere.

How do you know the teenager doesn't have SEN and isn't finding the screaming utterly overwhelming? What about if there had been 20 teenagers studying - should twenty kids be inconvenienced for the sake of one toddler?

People should be considerate of others in shared spaces, full stop. Whether or not someone has SEN, they or their parents should try to minimise disruption to others. Sometimes it's not possible e.g. on a train when you can't get off and your child is having a meltdown, but sometimes it is e.g. you could go step outside with your child for 5 minutes.

It's hard to say whether OP was being unreasonable without knowing exactly what type of space it is and whether there's a bench outside they could sit on etc. But just generally, just because someone has a disability doesn't mean that their needs automatically trump everyone else's. You have to weigh up the situation.

An autistic meltdown isn't the same as a toddlers tantrum. Usually totally different triggers and needs to be handled differently.

I feel your post displays what I think is more often than not at the heart of the problem. People often aren't genuinely distressed by the noise. They're annoyed by it and by what they perceive to be a poorly behaved child receiving inadequate parenting.

Parents of SEND kids are constantly being judged and encountering people who consider our children to be badly behaved due to our feckless parenting.

If we weren't dealing with this we'd be in a far better position to be able to spot the people, like other SEND individuals child/adults that genuinely have a hard time dealing with the noise our kids can make. The people that it actually causes distress to rather than a fleeting annoyance.

If a child is being tutored in an open seating area with tables that can be used for eating they aren’t expecting to be in a hushed environment. If they need that a private room would be a better alternative.

Obviously it's not the same, I didn't say it was. I'm saying the outcome - a screaming child - is what's relevant in OP's case.

People generally don't blame parents for their toddlers screaming. It's expected at that age, sen or not. (A 10 year old screaming in public would attract some judgement on their parenting skills unfortunately, with some people not taking sen into account).

So my point is that onlookers wouldn't judge OP on her child screaming. They would judge her on her reaction to that screaming.

If she is clearly doing her best to minimise disruption to others, then most people would be sympathetic. If she is doing nothing and blithely letting her child scream then people would judge that.

The screaming is annoying but it's the apparent entitlement and disregard for others that really gets people's backs up.

If I have a screaming child behind me in the cinema I get very irritated at the parents and I don't care whether sen is involved or not - they should take the child out, full stop. If I hear a screaming child on a plane - well, I expect the parents to do their best but I understand there's not much room to manoeuvre so I'm much more understanding, sen or not.

I really don't think that's surprising or controversial, but by your reaction it apparently is to some people? This is an interesting thread.

The teenager doesn't have the right to silence in a community centre. The library is the place to go for that.

The problem here lies with the LA. Many libraries now are used by LAs for tuition and some DC who have tuition cannot cope with libraries for this and other reasons. LAs use places like libraries and community centres because they want to save money whether it is suitable or not.

If a child is being tutored in an open seating area with tables that can be used for eating they aren’t expecting to be in a hushed environment. If they need that a private room would be a better alternative.

The child and family may well be expecting it. LAs lies and mislead parents. Yes, a private room would be better. Sadly, as above LAs try to save money even when it is inappropriate. This is an issue with the LA, not the other child.

People with disabilities that make them sensitive to noise also have every right to access and be part of the community.

And libraries being silent? Don’t make me laugh. They’re mainly extended toddler groups these days.

This genuinely surprises me.

“A 10 year old screaming in public would attract some judgement on their parenting skills unfortunately, with some people not taking sen into account.”

Surely if a 10 year old is screaming, like a toddler, you would assume it was SEN?

I’m not clear why it would attract judgment, unless the assumption is parents have spent 10 years just allowing their child to shout and should have done more about it by now?

I would hazard a guess that by 10 years old, the parents have already tried everything in their power because 10 years of shouting is mind numbingly deafening, and they also have ears.

I have a shouty 10 year old, and let me tell you - I’d like him to stop, probably more than anyone who only spends 5mins listening to it does.

Amen 🙌

Top tip op, when toddlers (or older, my dd has asd) have meltdowns, the best way is to change the environment if possible eg take them outside, take them inside, park up the car and let them out or whatever, it’s the transition to another environment that helps. People do not judge you for your toddler having a meltdown, they all do that, they will judge you for not removing them from the situation to calm them down if it’s safe to do so (if during take off on a plane there is literally no option to do this ditto on a bus but in a community centre you go outside with the child, if there’s a little one asleep in the pram, ask reception if they can keep an eye for 5 minutes. 90% of the time this distraction technique works.

I knew people would say this. Parents of SEN kids will of course put themselves in the OP’s position.

Of course I don’t think my needs are necessarily greater but they aren’t less important either. I do everything I can to minimise triggers.

When your kids grow up I genuinely hope that people will consider their needs too.

But all the lady did was ask politely? How was she supposed to know the circumstances?

I don’t imagine the receptionist would be too happy to have to babysit your other child.

People DO judge when a child has a meltdown if they perceive the parent not to be dealing with it. I think you mean other parents don’t judge.