How would you have handled this? SEND toddler in community centre.

‘Old boot’ - lovely. Misogyny and ageism in one go. And 50s isn’t exactly ancient. How nasty.

The teenager may well have been there because he had SEN. So why does the rights of a woman with a screaming child trump his rights? Or the woman who felt she had to say something?

Indeed.

It's quite likely the receptionist had at least one complaint, hence her coming to speak to OP.

If they thought OP was effectively dealing with the situation and it was likely to be over imminently, they wouldn't have been asking staff to have a word.

Two of my DC are SEN. They have a right to be in the same spaces as others as long as they are acting considerately of others. Or indeed I am on their behalf, if they can not control their own actions. SEN doesn't mean they can do what the hell they like and I don't have to bother my arse to parent them. Just because they perhaps can't help screaming, doesn't mean they are entitled to, at the expense of others. Screaming is not acceptable. It's not "just noise FFS if you want silence stay at home" and very disingenuous to pretend mere chatting would illicit the same problem to others using the space.

It's really hard having a child with SEN. And it makes your life even harder if you want to go through it fighting angrily that they are entitled to disturb others because of SEN. That's not being some brave advocate for your child. Guess what. My kids are annoying sometimes. And guess what, so are yours, the butchers, the bakers and the candlestick makers. If they are disrupting other people, you act considerately, to everyone in that space. It's basic manners and being part of a decent society.

I have never, ever been asked to parent my children, or hinted at to take better/faster action. And that's over 22yrs of SEN parenting. I'm by no way announcing how marvelous I am as a parent, Christ knows I've got enough wrong too. We all have. But I've been in enough SEN groups to see the parents who are proactive and trying and those who do bugger all, yet instantly turn snappy and offensive when there are inevitable problems because of it.

You’ve been in many sen groups but haven’t met anyone who can’t control their impact on other? Maybe someone who is loud, or says things they’d rather not, or who moans chokes or shouts? This is a child with additional needs who has travelled for an hour, is eating in a strange place before trying the nursery that will accommodate her, with a new baby in the home. This isn’t a story about a parenting fail, it one of a compassion fail, and you seem to be compounding it.
Inclusion is often inconvenient. Mothers with small disabled children often need more support and compassion. I’d be proud of you @Vni8w

How odd. Of course I've met other children with SEN. Many of them. Some like my own, some different. Why are you pretending anyone is suggesting it's the child's job to parent themselves?

It's the parent's job to assess and take action regarding the impact of their child's actions on others.

That's not compounding anything, that's just standard parenting that applies whether SEN or not.

So let’s take the obvious noisy disability. Are you suggesting parenting a child who makes loud inappropriate noises involves removing them incase their inescapable condition impacts anyone else? Absolute nonsense.

Are you suggesting the rest of us put up with it? Too much noise is physically painful and has left me unable to speak

Yes I am. Personally I find the idea that disabled people should be “put away” so more able people aren’t inconvenienced revolting, as do most people and we have legal protection for the more vulnerable incase they have to face discrimination of that kind.
If you are saying “what about if I have conflicting needs”, it’s a fairly common situation for most disabled people to negotiate. It’s about as terrifying a “gotcha” as a mother being asked “what if both your children need you at the same moment”.

Okay so HOW do you negotiate a situation where an ND child is screaming and another ND person who is triggered by loud noises are in the same space? What is the solution?

What generally happens is there the one triggered by noise has to either endure it (sensory meltdown) or has to leave.

In reality, the disabled people who can’t handle noise are the ones who are more likely to be shut away.

Where does this line end, out of interest?

My son doesn’t like other children playing on the equipment he wants, it distresses him.

Are you gonna stop taking your kids to playgrounds so he can just have them?

He doesn’t like fireworks. Cancel bonfire night.

He doesn’t like the sun, permanent night time?

Heat sends him into sensory overwhelm. No more summer.

Just like most autistic people, his whole life is a negotiation and unfortunately, there is no winner.

If it’s easier, I absolutely always move him. If he’s lying on the floor having the meltdown of his life, it probably actually is safer and easier for others to move out of his way.

Let me tells a story about swimming lessons in my sons sen class in the school pool. He is very noise sensitive

Child A has a sensory meltdown due to the lights, ambient noise and new environment.

Child B has a meltdown due to child A screams

Child C is is a flight risk and is frightened by both children melting down so runs off.

Child D goes into shut down in the changing room.

My child, a competent swimmer, decides that it will sound less upsetting in the water and he can swim the anxiety away to help himself regulate.

It was well staffed, everyone was safe despute discomfort, except maybe my son and the child who ran off as they went from a safe space to a more dangerous one.

The class didnt go swimming again.

There are no winners in disability top trumps.

Generally it boils down to safest course of action not greatest need or equity

Correct. We do our best to parent our children and you sound like a great mum.

Telling people they are "revolting" because I acknowledge I absolutely should take my screaming child away from the environment where prolonged screaming is not appropriate is both utterly ridiculous and is why SEN parents get such a bad image.

Apparently it's only revolting if I take one of my SEN children out though. My NT children, that's evidently not an issue...

I’m aware that ND life is about negotiation but I am asking about the specific situation.

I do my best to avoid others as much as possible for this very reason but still have to live my life even though certain noises trigger me. But that means it’s on ME to make the concessions.

If I have to be a public space and can’t escape the trigger, I go into internal panic mode and also develop hideous headaches. Noise cancelling headphones do nothing to calm it. Is there negotiation to be had there or do I just need to suck it up despite also being disabled?

As you say there are no winners but as a ND adult I sometimes have to be places. There is no negotiation as it’s not the same as having several people in the same group where someone can coordinate people’s needs.

Why is it okay for the onus to be on me to leave every time? My disability is as legitimate as anyone else’s.

I think people forget with the protestations about not keeping disabled people away from society that it only applies to some sections.

It is fine to have to tolerate noise because of a disability but I’m still waiting for a magic solution to two separate people having conflicting needs.

Incidentally my trigger is children shouting, screaming and crying in general. They do that whether they are ND or not, Why is It considered fine for me to have to shut myself away?

Because the ‘oh just negotiate in the same way as if two of your children needed you at the same time’ only works when you are dealing with two people in the same family or group.

If your child is screaming in public, nobody thinks ‘ooh perhaps remove the child in case anyone is struggling with it’.

But if someone who is struggling speaks to the parent of a child who is screaming in public, that’s apparently outrageous.

Why is it okay to discriminate against some?

What would the solution look like for you?

That is why I am asking for suggestions. A PP seems to think it’s easy to negotiate so I was waiting for some words of wisdom.

At the moment I have to escape or, if I can’t, have to deal with a banging headache and putting all my energy into not going into panic mode.

Honestly, I think it depends on capacity and easiest outcome.

I will absolutely move my son out of your way - if I can.

I can’t always pick him up and move him, OP has another child with her that makes things more difficult.

It might be that it’s easier for everyone if the movement is done by the people best placed to be able to do it.

That doesn’t mean it has to be an expectation, or a given. But if you can physically remove yourself, and can see that the person you’re struggling with either can’t or it will heighten the situation - yes it should be you.

I physically dragged my son out of a road last weekend. He is moved when we can and where there’s no real other option - cars can’t go anywhere else, for example. But sometimes, I do prefer the “more aware” and less 9 years old people to make that move.

The point if my post was really that there wasnt a solution. Needs clashed and everyone suffered. There wasnt a negotion, no body managed.

I didnt say it was ok to discrimate or that that the onus is always on the noise sensitive person to leave or to make accommodations.

I did suggest safety in probably the only differentiator in circumstances where thats relevant.

There isn't an answer that suits everyone.

Ironically the autistic kids I know, mine included both make the noise and are sensitive to it

If I were with my daughter as a toddler at that community centre I'd have done the same as the OP. If I were there now and she had a meltdown i'd take her outside. She's older, has a greater understanding and usually more compliant.

If I was in a doctor's waiting room with her now though and she had a meltdown i'd try to minimise it but I wouldn't leave. I'd be totally aware that people sharing the waiting room may well be bothered by her noise but I'm certainly not going to risk missing or delaying her appointment.

On plenty of occasions I've removed my daughter from places where others were making a lot of noise. It's all swings and roundabouts.

The vast majority of Mum's with SEN kids aren't willfully allowing their kids to be a nuisance. We're constantly making judgement calls whilst going about our lives: trying to do the best by our kids, managing their behaviour and trying not to unnecessarily ruffle feathers of people around us.

It's actually really bloody stressful, which is probably why at times we can get a bit defensive. But also why we are so grateful when someone does show a bit of empathy and cuts us some slack.

Like a pp I care for someone who is both noise sensitive and noisy. Sometimes life really does deal you a bum hand. Personally I would say an adult with noise sensitivity could very easily accommodate a mum with a baby and a distressed disabled toddler. You couldn’t be expected to know the back story but this it’s clearly in everyone’s interest that the toddler accesses nursery, and an hour away from home, with a fairly challenging journey I would think feeding the child is a good idea. The venue isn’t suitable for tutoring if they can’t cope with noise and the receptionist could presumably have suggested a private room next time or offered the OP one.
I think @Chipschoccake nailed it really. I do honestly think inclusion is the best fairest and right baseline for us all.

I think ND adult is old enough to cope and maybe walk away whereas my ND four year old wouldn't do that.

I don’t think OP did anything wrong.

I don’t think there is an easy answer when needs of disabled people clash. Regardless of ages. One being an adult doesn’t automatically mean they can cope and accommodate the other disabled person. Yes, some disabled people can learn strategies for managing better as they get older, but some can’t. For some, they are never going to be able to accommodate the other person or cope and walk away. And for some, they are much more difficult to manage in public as they get older.

The tutoring is because LA’s like to try to save money when providing AP/EOTAS/EOTIS packages even when it isn’t appropriate. If LAs didn’t act unlawfully so often, there wouldn’t be so much tutoring in places that aren’t suitable for the CYP’s needs.

Then I hope your child will be able to do that when they are an adult.

I get it - inclusion is purely an age thing. As an ND adult I see this a lot, sometimes I have to be in a particular space where I can’t leave.

I’m not an ‘adult with noise sensitivity’ though - that’s quite dismissive of someone who is also ND and who, at that point. Is struggling to stay calm and not melt down.

As you say, I wouldn’t have known the back story and it would not have changed my reaction. Babies and young children cry whether they are ND or not.

Unfortunately I don’t have a choice about going to some spaces. When I do have a choice I make sure I don’t go and that means only going to places that are work related.

It appears the consensus is that as an adult I should suck it up. I hope people are more accommodating when your ND children become adults,

And we ND adults can get defensive as we are expected to get on with it. I am not surprised by the overall consensus. I wish there was a way to cope with things. The pain I feel when triggered is indescribable and , coupled with trying to avert a meltdown, leaves me feeling exhausted.

Could you feed DD on a bench outside if the weather’s ok or ask nursery to move the time of her session?
It’s not fair to dominate the space and disturb all other users when you know that eating is a trigger. It’s possible that the teenager has his own issues to deal with if he’s with a tutor and not in main stream school, and it’s not reasonable to interrupt his learning so you have somewhere convenient to feed your DC.