How would you have handled this? SEND toddler in community centre.

I too have worked with vulnerable young people; in AP, PRUs and community tuition.

Surely we have to also accept that when we take young people into the community, the community will be there. Including those they’d prefer weren’t.

It does cut both ways.

If I was the other person I would be feeling for you. Trying to get a toddler and baby outside with food out and everything unpacked wouldn't be an easy job. And that was a bloody stupid question. If anyone ever says it again I would recommend "oh yes absolutely but I love the noise so much I let it go on as long as possible." With a raised eyebrow. I get very sarcastic when trying to hold myself together though.

My ex boss advised me that the best phrase to hang on to with small children is "this too shall pass." Because he said that every phase added eventually, sadly also the good ones. 😂 He was wise. Many, many phases have passed now. Although today I have been awarded the Worst Parent in the World award twice. Once for asking her to brush her teeth. There was flouncing and stamping involved in that one. The other one was for picking her up from out of school club at exactly the time I do every Wednesday for swimming classes. Because the club leader had just started leading them to the school gym for some playtime and they never get to go in there.

And if it helps our most epic screaming meltdown happened in the house during COVID. DH was in his office and I could hear him talking in a meeting. It was loud and lasted over half an hour. I thanked my lucky stars that his team all were very understanding of him having to work from home with a toddler in the house. Until he came through for dinner and I found out he was in fact doing one of his annual lecture series to university students. Who would all have heard us. Apparently he managed not to get distracted by the background mayhem which is a small miracle. It felt like a slightly less public version of that poor television presenter's wife crawling across the floor to grab a child.

You'll always cause offence to nitpickers...

I don't think that's what she believes at all ! I suspect she thinks an institution would be better all round.

This thread is actually quite depressing, how everyone is fixated on second guessing every bloody decision this poor mum is making. When all she's actually looking for is some input as to how others would have dealt with the situation.

I struggled with just my daughter as a toddler, if I'd had a baby too I think I'd have been rocking in the corner. So rather than undermining every decision this mum makes maybe posters should show a bit of empathy and if that's beyond you then just move on to the next thread.

@Vni8w

In answer to your question though, I think I'd be asking myself a few questions.

Two hours of bus journeys every day, with a baby , in order that an older sibling can do an hour, maybe two of the only nursery that will allow my other child to attend. Is it sustainable? Is it good for the baby?

Learn to drive? Options will dramatically increase.

Why can't the toddler eat a large, early lunch at home, then have a decent snack just as they go in for their session? They should be able to function for several hours after their lunch, plus a snack as well - plus it doesn't sound like these are very long sessions, they can have a snack on the way home too.

Is the nursery part of the community centre? You say it's attached and they've asked you to wait there. Or is that it's nearby but nothing to do with them and they've suggested there, because it sounds like it's in the middle of nowhere, you can't drive, and you have to wait about. I only ask because there must be many screaming children at the nursery, and yet none of these are affecting the other child who is studying?

What did you actually do to stop your child screaming? You say the baby slept through the whole thing, so what steps were you taking? What would this have looked like to an observer, as someone seems very unlikely to approach and ask you to do something, if you looked like you were trying to do something?

Is this the first time this has happened?

With any of my children, whether it was one with SEN or not, prolonged screaming, or any form of prolonged behaviour that might be distressing others, is not acceptable in public places. With one of my SEN DC, the reason behind it is absolutely genuine, but it isn't justification to pretend it's ok and get angry at anyone who is disturbed by the noise. Just because it's out of my child's control to do anything about it doesn't mean I should pretend the same applies to me.

Just to be clear, when people get cross about things like this, they aren't getting cross at the children. They're getting cross with the adult. At what is coming across as no visible effort to parent.

One of mine is SEN and outside is always a plus and less stressful, have you tried going to an outisde bench / park etc? I find it too stressful inside even if people don’t say anything I know it’s ruining everyone else’s time - and mine. Strangely mine finds it calmest eating in a car which I appreciate is not available to you. Toddlers do have cries and is hard but also appreciate it’s tough on everyone and a bit of understanding on both sides is key.

I think it was more than " unlikely to be met " when have the words " Calm Down" ever calmed anyone down, let alone a toddler on the spectrum.

You are doing your best to juggle two children and getting two buses to get there. I wouldnt give a flying about that lady. How rude. People speak without thinking or concidering what someone else may be going through. Can i help might have been a kinder approach... whats this world coming to.

Does your child have ehcp?

I’m sorry OP, it must be really hard to have a SEND child, but it’s unreasonable to disrupt a tutor session like this. You need to take your child out if this happens.

If the teen and tutor are in the communal area they are taking their chances on noise and interruptions. If they wanted privacy and quiet they presumably could book one of the rooms. Is the centre being used by other groups during the afternoons? i suspect the lady who approached you is a volunteer and may have felt equally awkward about the conversation. It might be better to speak to whoever is on duty at reception when you next go to clarify the situation before you sit down. Does dd need to eat beforehand?

However I wonder your longer term plan is . Even when dd is settled if the journey home sounds tricky and you have another dc, how do you propose to manage the time with them, especially once the worse weather comes and they get more mobile.

Wait until you experience ageism/misogyny as an older woman and then come back and say it’s ‘nitpicking’ to be curious as to why the age of the person you’re moaning about has relevance.

At the end of the day - high pitch prolonged screaming is stressful to be around - whether it’s a toddler or dementia patient, whether they can help it or not. It’s unpleasant and not easy to ‘ignore’.

I think the key with little ones is that it’s even more annoying if you can see the parent isn’t doing anything to mitigate it. Maybe the receptionist was just agitated and wanted to do ‘something’.

Not anyone’s fault. I'm not criticising the op, and I'm not saying it’s easy with little ones kicking off, but the receptionist wasn’t rude or impolite, just forthright. I admire her restraint quite frankly. It would be doing my head in to try and work in those conditions.

On a side note, if she's having a meltdown about eating, just skip it. She will catch up after. If she's anxious and unsettled she probably doesn't want to, I wouldn't eat before a job interview or a big presentation. She probably feels the same

Anyway sod them all, you've got her to nursery and doing the legwork to settle her in despite multiple busses and waiting around. It's a shame the lady that commented doesn't know the back story but nevermind.

In fairness, sometimes it’s that they don’t like the way the parent is parenting their child.

I got a shitty comment last year because someone didn’t like the way I held my then 8 year old as he tried to run into and then lie down in a road.

Nevermind saving his life, do it differently.

People do quite often comment on, or give judgemental looks towards, situations they’re not involved in and have no actual idea about.

Also parent of a SEN child and I would have handled this by removing child and taking them outside.

It can be very hard to physically manoeuvre a toddler having a meltdown but as PP have said 5 minutes is a very long time. SEN is a reason that most will understand as the cause for the meltdown and most people are sympathetic to it I have found, but it’s not a reason to expect it to take over what everyone else is doing.

I do think the woman was asking you to take DD outside and it is what I would have done also.

if there is a teenager with sen having a 1:1 tutor i would hazard a guess they struggle a lot with other people, noise etc and may not have autonomy to move away and it’s unlikely there is anywhere obvious for them to go without further disruption to their learning.

I really feel you've done nothing wrong. Toddlers have tantrums, SEN or not. You were in a public space. Perhaps the teenager and his tutor could consider using a library if they need more quiet space

If the student needs peace and quiet then need to move away for the communal space.

It has thankfully. My son is now a teenager and has been in a special needs setting since he was diagnosed aged 5 and got his EHCP while on the diagnosis pathway. A lot of love and work from various people has gone into helping my son with his mental and emotional wellbeing- a lot of this is preventing him getting overwhelmed and therefore having meltdowns. Hopefully as time goes on you and your child will find ways to make things easier.

Unfortunately, there’s a lot of wilful ignorance surrounding people of all ages on the spectrum and there’s very little we as parents of children with additional needs can do about it. We have our hands full enough already.

OMG some of the responses on here are hideous and very mean and come from a place of complete smugness.

I'm an older lady (64) and took no offence from OPs description of the unkind lady that spoke to her although I recognise the rampant ageism throughout MN on many topics . I too was a single parent of an autistic toddler and have had similar experiences and know how mortifying they are. Unlike OP I didn't also have to contend with a baby and 2 buses at the same time.

As for having a 'plan' as some have suggested all I can say is that if you find somewhere that's helpful for your dc you go with it for as long as you can and move heaven and earth to keep it going for as long as you can.

And for what it's worth, often the most understanding came from older/elderly people who had the life experience to recognise what was going on and the lowest understanding often came from smug younger adults who just thought they knew everything without much life experience to validate it.

You're doing great OP.

I also cannot drive (likely due to my own ND) and IME people don't really understand just how long it takes to get anywhere when you don't have access to a car. It is not always feasible to feed children at home before getting somewhere, and the journey itself can be stressful and tiring, especially with young children. I have also struggled with access to toilets at times and people don't always understand this either. Particularly at nurseries often there is of course toilet facilities for the children and staff, but not for parents to use unless you had an especially long meeting there or something.

I think if you see her again maybe have a phrase ready like "I'm really sorry but she is autistic and she doesn't understand. Moving her outside will just upset her even more. She will calm down quickest if I don't try to move her."

Alternatively if the community centre and nursery are linked, it might be that you can chat with someone who works there in a support type role, do health visitors work from there for example? Thinking about one that I used to visit - this was back when Sure Start was a thing so it's probably all been cut now, but there were 2 health visitors, a family support worker and I think possibly a nursery nurse who all used to run various family sessions like weighing etc. They would have been the right people to talk to to work out a solution or place to sort DC out with food, nappy changes etc before the nursery session.

In this case it's largely irrelevant that the child has SEN. NT toddlers are all prone to tantrums that can be distressing for the mother and disturb people around them. It doesn't mean they've got to be hidden from society, all you can do is try to minimise the impact. Much harder when your child is older, but at that point other people are more likely to recognise a disability. When it's a screaming toddler, it's just a screaming toddler to anyone around you.

The bottom line is, the crying was disrupting another child's education and that is true whether ND or NT.

No, ND children should not be 'locked away'. Yes, they deserve the same freedom as any other person. But given that you knew there was a lesson taking place, the considerate thing to do would have been to move away until the crying had stopped. I would say exactly the same about an NT child.

Yes of course it cuts both ways and I would do my best to support my student to cope or to move elsewhere if possible.
Their learning has still been disrupted though. One day the toddler might be the older student.