To think that mothers just care more about the kids than fathers do? In most cases?

I think my ex husband probably has a deeper bond with our children than I do. Despite splitting up when they were small (something that I actually deeply regret now) he has continued to be there all the time, whilst I was the one travelling for work at short notice, so he has that intuitive understanding of them and their needs rather than me. He was the one more keen to have children and when we split we were very much keen to continue to split the load 50:50 which it had always been. His family are also very hands in and involved with the girls’ lives, which is how he was brought up - a big noisy, loving Indian family, whilst mine were dysfunctional to say the least. He’s a brilliant father and I’m an adequate mother.

Think it does depend on what you define as care. Men / Farther’s do see the world differently. I have seen some terrible behaviour from both sexes but would agree that the balance of good vs bad sits firmly with women

I also work with children in public services and would agree if audited the attendance of dads on there own with child at appointments is minimal compared to with women or partnered (partnered being less)

Have also seen that the default female way is not always the right way and what can be perceived as shit men is actually just a different way of looking at the same situation

. In short I would probably agree with May of your gripes but your op putting women vs men is a race to the bottom and does zero to encourage men to be better.

Accurate, though. And women's refusal to accept it results in a lot of women who are very unhappy with their lot. And then they're on mumsnet venting their fury that men aren't women, fathers aren't mothers and men just aren't ever going to think and feel like they do.

I think what I mean is he just loves them a lot more, is a lot more invested in their existence and already thinks of himself as a father in a way I don’t yet. And love is what OP is talking about.

Practically he’s obviously done less, although he’s the one who’s done all the research and baby books, all the buying of equipment and setting it up and planning baby’s room and clothes etc. He’s also changed job and doubled his salary because I’m pregnant, which was nice. I’ve done more physically obviously but that’s all been fairly involuntary on my part - not so much an active choice. We’ve had a very difficult pregnancy medically and it’s just been very clear that his feeling about the unborn child is much deeper than mine right now. I’m sure this will even out when they’re born!

You can't be serious, everything is blamed on pmt, peri, menopause.

How many women go through parenting expectations with men before they have babies with them, or the 9 months of pregnanc? Or how many just want a baby and dont thinl of anything else?

I think men still prioritise themselves once they have children, in some cases, more than women do. So as a random example, if there were a few strawberries left, I'd give them to the DC, whereas my husband would eat them himself. I wouldn't eat them because I'd be thinking of how it will benefit my children to have a healthy snack etc before myself. As soon as I had DC, they became the priority. Whereas I don't think that would occur to him, he wants them so he eats them!

Fingers crossed that you have a good one. They’re so rare! Good luck with the birth!

With 30+ years experience of working in overwhelmingly male-dominated environments, I agree completely. A very large proportion of men are ambivalent at best about becoming fathers & only agree to do so because the women they love want to be mothers, and they want to make her happy.

This set up is v out if date. Most women i know out earn or earn the same as their male partner and still do the 'worry' re the kids while the men are largely indifferent to their everyday needs.

Nonsense.

I think this is the picture they like to paint with work colleagues and everyone outside the household.

A small contribution!

Yes, in 90+% of cases, I think mothers care more. It seems obvious to me that would be the case, aberrations aside, as it aligns with both biology and evolution.

Of the people I know, yes I’d say that this is true OP. There’s more reactivity, confusion and projected anger with male parenting, more preparation / less confusion / more anticipation of need with female parenting. I feel women are also more likely to take responsibility for outcomes, rather than shifting blame to the children.

I agree op - l think most men are jist wired different. My dh will happily take the credit when anyone praises our daughter which makes me laugh to myself as l have done the lion's share of raising her

I think women have different priorities and men think they’re teaching life lessons by allowing kids to forget things (eg the kids don’t have their full swimming gear? They won’t do that again) or saying ‘you can tidy your own room etc. I’m torn because my kids have started to assume I’ll have their back and drop everything to come to their aid or have left me to clean up after them whereas they’ll jump to it either dh.

in the same way men seem stingier, but at times I think of the savings we’d have if I thought like a man and just said ‘no nice little extras!’

I don’t like the idea of saying men care less just because they go about things a different way

I think that's a perfect analogy. Men do still prioritise themselves when they have kids (to a greater or lesser degree). A woman would go without food for a week to ensure her children ate. The majority of men wouldn't or at least wouldn't take it with good grace. It's also worth noting that fathers are more likely to walk out on their kids than mothers.

I don’t think it’s necessarily that they care less/we care more, they just aren’t taking on the same level of responsibility because they know we will. Our time isn’t as important as a man’s, so he gets to mainly use his as he pleases (normally for himself as a priority). Of course there will be the odd man who isn’t like this, but I don’t think I’ve ever known one personally.

You're not wrong. As a generalisation.

Not all men and all that.

Im married to a man now who would crawl over glass rather than become estranged in any way from his children.

My first husband however - when we split up he forgot he even had kids after a couple of years.

So 50/50 for me as far as personal experience. As for anecdotal experience - i know lots of women bringing up kids estranged from the fathers and the fathers don't give a shit about their kids.

I know zero men who are bringing up kids where the mother's buggered off ......

How many fathers lose all contact with their children after divorce/break up?
How many mothers do?

My husband loves and cares about our children but he doesn’t worry about them in the same way I do or parent them in the same loving maternal way that I do. He definitely doesn’t have the same need to be near them that I do 🤣

I would never say I love them more than he does…. It’s just a different kind of love we have for them and we demonstrate that love in different ways.

I had this conversation with a group of mum friends recently, all of us from different backgrounds, and unanimously experience the fathers thinking of themselves before their family, whereas we mothers all thought of the family before ourselves. The most common experience that we all have, is the father arranging to meet up with friends or do a hobby related activity and taking for granted that their partner will be there for the childcare, without thinking to check, whereas we all had to ask, put it on the calendar and keep double checking that he would be home to provide childcare, before we arranged something. It seems that the men have the privilege of putting their wants first or seeing them as more important, something that most mothers will never experience.