Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Whole families on UC, PIP, DLA and carers' allowance for each other?

1000 replies

Hutinthemiddleofnowhere · 05/09/2026 23:03

This isn't a bashing, rather a genuine observation and we're privileged in the UK to have support with benefits and disabilities.

Having adopted 2 siblings with special needs over a decade ago it opened me up to a whole new world to me. With DC in specialist schools and needing a lot of intervention from agencies and medical support I've met so many parents and children. As a teacher this was so insightful and, while having always been extra devoted to students who had difficulties, my own experience as a parent took it to another level.

Teaching, I was always aware and sympathetic to those who barely made it to lesson, almost fell asleep but professionally had to adhere to the 'not participating' and when told to 'fuck off' it was call out. I knew there would be further investigation as to why they act like this by more able and senior colleagues. Didn't take it personally but, as you can imagine, it's difficult when you have several students like this while under the pressure of teaching a tricky maths part of the syllabus.

So as a parent of ND DC I experienced it from the other side. It was very difficult because our DC were causing disruptions due to their severe diagnosis.

Throughout our journey and specialist schools I saw a lot of reality. This comes (finally) back to my point. Year after year it became blatantly obvious that the vast majority of children have parents with their own issues, whether hereditary or learnt behaviour.

I got a job at the primary school as a liason officer so met most parents. All lovely and care about their DC but sadly struggled with managing themselves, their homes etc. Those few who weren't eligible for taxis and escorts (walkable distance) relied heavily on GPs to take and pick up from school. There were some parents who did drive and drop off, like me, but it was about 5%.

So mostly the parents were on UC, claimed PIp for anxiety and MH, got DLA for all DC and also carers' allowance for looking after DC. While i visited it was clear they were were reclusive, their days were spent watching TV, gaming, DC picked up in a taxi and they had struggled to get out of bed, knew they are provided breakfast at school, went back to bed. Yes I've seen this on an early morning visit multiple times.

I understand but also a part of me felt frustrated that they had fallen into a rut, able bodied, could have long conversations, but have had so much support that has enabled this.

As a school we reached out to parents to come and integrate, provided workshops, held informal educational classes how we can help our DC. As a parent and before being employed there I attended these and it so nice to meet other parents. The reality... they just sat there, being served coffee by an already busy TA, talked all the way through the presentations then left, after already leaving several times for a smoke during an hour and half get together. Still as an attending parent at this point I could see TA was struggling so stepped in to help serve the refreshments, set up equipment and clear up afterwards. One Mum asked me to open a window, another asked to give her some biscuits...I was the same as them, a parent, but they were just totally oblivious to the situation.

Then walking out, having cleaned up and they were chatting outside, all I heard was that was so boring, I know how to bring up my kids, waste of time coming out, so what you doing now, probably Netflix.

Then getting the role and seeing deeper into their lifestyles it confirmed that actually so many of these parents had come from a generational cycle with low aspirations and no encouragement within modern education, social workers or support from us all could change their mindsets of behaviour. Sadly it really is a case of we get money, DC have their consoles, school provides meals and exercise, bags of amazing stuff at Christmas and end of year which we don't even say thank you for, we can complain online if we don't like something etc.

This is just the basic circumstances, delve deeper and you would be shocked at how some of these poor kids live. A whole different thread would have to be made about drug dealing, violence, not allowing DC in the house so they have to become one of the balaclava gangs and so much more.

As parents, even if we have our own issues, we all need to put our DC first, not rely on others to do it for us.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
OneLilacHedgehog · 12/09/2026 20:36

Yes if you can have a bath safely without using an aid it shouldn't count. I can't get in the bath.
I had no idea a front fastening bra was an aid. You do know how to stretch the definitions to maximise benefits.
If you can heat a microwave meal you get fewer points.
Personally I think if you can manage by making reasonable adjustments you shouldn't get pip.

DiscoRice · 12/09/2026 20:41

OneLilacHedgehog · 12/09/2026 20:36

Yes if you can have a bath safely without using an aid it shouldn't count. I can't get in the bath.
I had no idea a front fastening bra was an aid. You do know how to stretch the definitions to maximise benefits.
If you can heat a microwave meal you get fewer points.
Personally I think if you can manage by making reasonable adjustments you shouldn't get pip.

Using that logic, someone who uses a wheelchair or something like a rollator to get about wont be entitled to PIP either. Someone who can not use buses so has to use taxis would not get it.
Actually, no one would get PIP.

roaringdragon · 12/09/2026 20:41

There is more to be considered than safely when considering whether someone can reliably complete a task. Safely is only one element.

I am not stretching the definitions. Understanding the actual rules rather than what you would like them to be isn’t stretching anything.

In terms of the PIP criteria, being able to cook a simple meal using a microwave isn’t quite the same as ‘can heat a microwave’. For example, only being able to heat a ready meal doesn’t mean you can cook a simple meal using a microwave.

OneLilacHedgehog · 12/09/2026 20:49

DiscoRice · 12/09/2026 20:41

Using that logic, someone who uses a wheelchair or something like a rollator to get about wont be entitled to PIP either. Someone who can not use buses so has to use taxis would not get it.
Actually, no one would get PIP.

Tell me you don't use a wheelchair with that comment.
I do. No you can't just get round like someone walking.

DiscoRice · 12/09/2026 20:55

OneLilacHedgehog · 12/09/2026 20:49

Tell me you don't use a wheelchair with that comment.
I do. No you can't just get round like someone walking.

But you get around. The wheelchair is your adustment.

roaringdragon · 12/09/2026 21:01

In terms of what is considered an aid or appliance for PIP, a wheelchair is considered the same as the aid to get in/out of the bath or that front fastening bra. They all fall under the aid or appliance criteria. If you are classing aids as reasonable adjustments, then they would be considered the same.

And I agree a wheelchair doesn’t mean you can get around the same as someone able-bodied. My DS1 uses a wheelchair/SN buggy. However, someone who needs e.g. a bath seat as an aid to get in/out of the bath can’t get a bath the same as someone who doesn’t have difficulty with getting in/out of the bath. If you think they can manage to get a bath because they can do it without but it takes much longer then the same could be said about the person who uses a wheelchair but can technically manage because they can walk but it takes much longer.

bryceQ · 12/09/2026 21:44

My son attends specialist school, caring for him is immense. I have my own business and frantically work during his small number of school hours. Husband works full time so we can afford to live. We get DLA only (which tool a long time to get the right rate) .

I think honestly it’s so so difficult to work in my situation. I get back from school run at 10:30 and leave to collect at 2pm. What job could I do between those hours that has unlimited school holidays off and can be dropped in an instant if my son can’t sleep or attend school which is often. I think it’s so so hard to have two working parents.

OneLilacHedgehog · 12/09/2026 21:53

DiscoRice · 12/09/2026 20:55

But you get around. The wheelchair is your adustment.

But you don't. An NHS wheelchair does not allow you to cross uneven ground, or gravel, or anywhere without a dropped curb, or stairs. There are so many inaccessible places.

OneLilacHedgehog · 12/09/2026 21:55

@roaringdragon I can walk 200 metres but it takes longer. Taking longer is not the issue

roaringdragon · 12/09/2026 22:12

OneLilacHedgehog · 12/09/2026 21:55

@roaringdragon I can walk 200 metres but it takes longer. Taking longer is not the issue

You did take issue with taking longer when I gave the example of the person needing a bath aid. That example was of someone who scored points for needing an aid to get in/out of the bath but could ‘manage’ without by it taking much longer to do. Because it takes much longer, they can’t do it reliably (which is the criteria PIP uses). You said “if you can have a bath safely without using an aid it shouldn't count”.

My point was that the same can apply to someone who uses a wheelchair but could technically manage to walk but it takes longer. At the moment, someone who uses a wheelchair but could walk 200m by taking far longer than typical to do so would score points on the moving around criteria. But using the logic you applied to the bath aid, they shouldn’t. Because swapping ‘walk’ for ‘can have a bath’, ‘if you can [walk] safely without using an aid it shouldn't count’.

Stressedandgrey · 12/09/2026 22:16

Merryoldgoat · 05/09/2026 23:12

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. I understand the words individually but you have just strung a variety of observations together based on your experiences.

As a parent of two SEN children, both of whom are in special school, I do not recognise your characterisation of the ‘majority’ of parents.

I have 3 children with SEND. Two went to mainstream and one to special.
I have also been a mainstream teacher, specialist teacher, SENCo and work in local authority education services now.

I do not recognize what you are describing at all.

I also find professionals can be very patronising.

When my son was being assessed for ADHD, I was a SENCO and special school teacher, with a post grad qualification in SEND. I had to agree to go on a positive parenting course before his assessment could continue, just in case his traits were a result of my parenting 🙈

I think you are spreading nasty, lazy stereotypes tbh.

OneLilacHedgehog · 12/09/2026 23:02

roaringdragon · 12/09/2026 22:12

You did take issue with taking longer when I gave the example of the person needing a bath aid. That example was of someone who scored points for needing an aid to get in/out of the bath but could ‘manage’ without by it taking much longer to do. Because it takes much longer, they can’t do it reliably (which is the criteria PIP uses). You said “if you can have a bath safely without using an aid it shouldn't count”.

My point was that the same can apply to someone who uses a wheelchair but could technically manage to walk but it takes longer. At the moment, someone who uses a wheelchair but could walk 200m by taking far longer than typical to do so would score points on the moving around criteria. But using the logic you applied to the bath aid, they shouldn’t. Because swapping ‘walk’ for ‘can have a bath’, ‘if you can [walk] safely without using an aid it shouldn't count’.

No I scored nil points because I can walk 200 metres but take longer. It should be the same with taking a bath.
Who cares if it takes you a bit longer to take a bath if you can take it?

roaringdragon · 12/09/2026 23:09

OneLilacHedgehog · 12/09/2026 23:02

No I scored nil points because I can walk 200 metres but take longer. It should be the same with taking a bath.
Who cares if it takes you a bit longer to take a bath if you can take it?

There is a difference between much longer and a bit longer.

Who cares? Well if it takes you much longer to get a bath, much longer to dress, much longer to toilet, much longer to prepare a simple meal, much longer to walk… the ‘much longer’ adds up and you may not have time to actually do everything that needs doing. Added to that you can’t do it reliably. Added to that, for many, the longer it takes the more exhausting it is &/or the more pain it causes. In terms of the bath, the much longer might then mean the bath needs topping up with more hot water resulting in higher costs.

In order to be able to do an activity you have to be able to do it reliably. That means safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and in a reasonable time frame. If it takes someone much longer to walk 200m than is typical, then they can’t do this reliably.

OneLilacHedgehog · 12/09/2026 23:16

Of course they can do it reliably if someone can walk but more slowly. Loads and loads of people have issues such as back pain that means they walk more slowly.

roaringdragon · 12/09/2026 23:20

The law disagrees with you. The definition of reliably is set out in the Regs. That definition includes a within a reasonable time period clause. Which means no more than twice as long as the maximum period that a person without a physical or mental condition which limits that person’s ability to carry out the activity in question would normally take to complete that activity.

OneLilacHedgehog · 12/09/2026 23:44

Where does it say twice as long?

roaringdragon · 12/09/2026 23:49

In the Regs.

OneLilacHedgehog · 13/09/2026 00:01

Can you link them? Because according to that I should get pip and got zero points.

OneLilacHedgehog · 13/09/2026 00:02

Can you link them? Because according to that I should get pip and got zero points.

roaringdragon · 13/09/2026 00:05

The definition of reliably is in Regulation 4 of The Social Security (Personal Independence Payment) Regulations 2013. You can see it here.

I didn’t link because earlier you said you understand the PIP descriptor when I was talking about reliably. I assumed if you actually understood the descriptor about reliably you would understand the definition from the Regs.

PIP isn’t as easy to claim as some like to make out. Part of that is because assessments don’t always score people correctly as the law sets out. It is part of the reason why so many appeals are successful.

NotYetHeating · 13/09/2026 02:21

Since the Uk is in dire straits re it’s low growth, rising debt, rising unemployment etc, the problem will fix itself.
Either reform gets in and fixes it. Looking more likely with all the huge donation.
Failing that we have the IMF imposing huge cuts after our already fragile economy falls over (reckon this winter with the bond market, food shortages and energy prices alongside the rising unemployment, the AI bubble bursting ought to do it)
Either way those self supporting will be okay although perhaps not great. The rest probably won’t be. I guess ‘survival of the fittest’ and all that.
Most people are utterly sleepwalking re the perilous state of the uk. Other countries have their issues but the Uk really does seem to be about to hit a perfect storm.

Greenismyfavouritecolournow · 13/09/2026 04:29

x2boys · 11/09/2026 07:41

Nobody has a luxury lifestyle on universal credit .

Edited

No one has a luxury lifestyle on minimum wage age either. But if you could have the ‘same ‘ lifestyle without any effort whatsoever and all the free time in the world? Which one do you think some people would pick?
I mean I enjoy my job and it’s important for my mental health but if someone gave me the same full time salary to stay at home I’m sure I could find something to fill my time. That’s the issue. Work to be a small amount of money better off per week or have your week to yourself to do as you please?

Greenismyfavouritecolournow · 13/09/2026 04:31

Glad I don’t make the decisions because regardless of feckless parents I wouldn’t want children to suffer. And there are a lot of feckless parents!

TigerRag · 13/09/2026 07:46

OneLilacHedgehog · 13/09/2026 00:01

Can you link them? Because according to that I should get pip and got zero points.

That wouldn't be enough for a pip award. You'd have to score points in planning and following a journey too

HouseBee · 13/09/2026 09:02

@NotYetHeating you realise the first thing a Reform will do is ensuring its donors are catered fir.
Which means they will look after the richest people, not people like you and me.

If you think zero hour contract, no hols, reduced protection re maternity leave and of course no a AHe etc etc etc will help you, great. But I personally have no doubt it will mean less fur us and more money for the richest instead

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.