Whole families on UC, PIP, DLA and carers' allowance for each other?

It only makes zero sense to someone who doesn’t understand PIP and the scope of how some MH conditions can present. Thankfully, what you think is irrelevant to whether someone is eligible or not.

I haven’t lectured anyone. I replied saying there are other MH conditions because your reply to me at 16:34 focused solely on depression when my posts mentioned mental health conditions rather than specifically depression.

I haven’t said no-one with MH conditions can work, but just because some can doesn’t mean all can and some in work will still be receiving benefits.

@roaringdragon so educate me? What mental health conditions mean you need prompting to get washed and dressed, but you can still work?

We need to rethink benefits in this country because they are seriously ruining people's lives. Telling people they don't need to work due to anxiety is just cruel, especially when there's a decent chance at some point they will be told that they will have to work after all, and that's after years of social isolation.

It isn’t about the condition, it is the functional impairment. So, yes, some with depression may need prompting to complete ADL but can work. That won’t apply to all, but some. It can also apply to some (not all!) with conditions such as OCD, eating disorders, bipolar, schizophrenia, cPTSD. Just some examples.

Sorry for any disappointment.

Why is every message from MNHQ so passive aggressive?

@roaringdragon thanks for the useless answer. I had talked about features of some of those mental health issues like psychosis.
If your OCD is bad enough to get pip, you are unlikely to be able to work.

As I said you obviously know how to get pip better than me. But I still maintain if you are able to hold down a job, your functional impairment is not severe enough to need pip.

It's the middle class way. Rather than be straight forward and adult about communication, you make digs at people.

It is not a useless answer. You asked what medical conditions mean you need prompting to get washed and dressed, but you can still work. I answered that by telling you what conditions I have successfully supported people to apply with when they can still work. Just because you disagree with it doesn’t mean it is useless. I directly answered the question asked.

Unlikely doesn’t mean never though. Some can. Not all, which is what I said. To give an example of someone with OCD who I have supported to apply. They scored 4 points for needing assistance to prepare a simple meal. That is because of their rituals around food. They scored 2 points for being prompted to dress. They could physically dress but it took them a long time because they have rituals and compulsions involving clothing. They needed encouraging (falls under the definition of prompting) to move on to the next item of clothing. They scored 2 points for being prompted to wash. Again because of rituals and the length of time it took them. They also scored 2 points for mixing with others due to their difficulties. This was all supported by evidence from HCPs. Yet they managed, just about, to hold down a job. Albeit one that was flexible and allowed them reasonable adjustments. Not full time but more than a few hours a week.

You didn’t talk about anything other than depression in the post where my response said there were other MH conditions, which is why I said that in response to that post.

@roaringdragon I don't believe that someone with complex rituals because of OCD who rightly qualifies for pip, could hold down a job. OCD does not disappear when at work.
I believe you managed to get them pip though even though they work. I just don't think it is right though.
And yet again, I did not talk only about depression.

Believe it, don’t believe it. It is irrelevant what you think is right or not, Just because you are ignorant enough to not understand doesn’t mean you are right. You aren’t. I didn’t say their OCD disappeared when at work. In fact, you can infer otherwise since I said they were just about able to hold down a job, had flexibility and reasonable adjustments and weren’t working full-time. The claim was supported by NHS HCPs.

In your post at 16:34 you only mentioned depression. That is the post I replied to stating other conditions existed.

This thread is about PIP, which you can claim and work.
You can also claim ESA/UC and work.

No one gets told they don't "need" to work.

Just curious, how does PIP fund prompting to get dressed for work in the morning? What exactly are you suggesting people are paying for in this regard?

What do you mean by “how does PIP fund prompting to get dressed for work in the morning?”

PIP doesn’t have to fund the activities looked at during the PIP assessment. That isn’t how it works.

But you said they need it, and its relevant to their claim. So who is providing the prompting? And if its not being paid for by the PIP, why should it be considered in the application?

PIP is not awarded based on costs.

The PIP assessment is based on functional impairment across 10 daily living activities and 2 mobility activities. That is why the activity is considered.

The PIP assessment isn’t based on costs (whether related to the assessed activities or not).

It may be a family member providing the prompting, it may be a paid for carer, it may be a friend... It may be nobody because the person doesn’t have to be receiving the support, only need it in terms of the PIP criteria.

Yes, so why is it relevant? PIP doesnt help with prompting, it isnt something that can be paid for, so how is it relevant?

So in other words, its not remotely relevant. Its a load of nonsense that money is awarded for things that money cant help with.

Of course it is relevant. It is part of the criteria for PIP.

Although PIP does not have to be spent on the activities assessed, money can help with prompting. Someone may pay for someone to prompt them. Or they may pay for therapy in the hope of getting to the point where they don’t need prompting. Or they may use it towards other costs so that another family member being present to prompt them when needed. They may use the money to free up time elsewhere so that it doesn’t matter that it e.g. takes them an hour to dress without prompting. They may use it to try different technology so that they need an aid rather than prompting from another person.

It might currently be part of the criteria, that doesn't mean it is actually relevant and will almost certainly be up for question in the near future.
Sorry but we cant afford to pay people to be reminded to get dressed, when they arent even spending money on that. Ridiculous.

If it part of the criteria, it is inherently relevant.

Only one sixth of people who claim PIP work. So the vast majority dont

That is irrelevant. It is not designed as an out of work benefit.
Claiming PIP does not switch off work search requirements if you are on UC.

Exactly. If people in manage without the care, why should they get the money?
Prompting is sometimes relevant e.g. with very severe mental health problems where someone needs lots of encouragement and support. Similarly with dementia or cognitive issues someone may be able to physically get dressed, but need told what to do next.

I suppose it hinges on what you mean by manage, and the same could be said about those with physical conditions.

To give 3 examples:
Someone with a physical condition might score points for needing assistance to prepare a simple meal, but they could ‘manage’ by eating food that doesn’t need preparing. Does that mean they shouldn’t score for preparing a meal?

Someone with a physical condition might score points for needing an aid to get in/out of the bath/shower, but they could ‘manage’ without the care by it taking much longer to do. Does that mean they shouldn’t score for the washing activity?

A woman with a physical condition might score points for needing an aid (a front fastening bra or a pull on sports bra) to put on bra, but they manage by not wearing a bra. Does that mean they shouldn’t score for dressing?