To get so stressed about my kids’ car behaviour

Parents who shout rarely have obedient children. Work on actions and consequences. If you shout when they are shouting that reinforces on them that shouting is ok.

Leave the house much earlier than you need to to have enough time to pull to the side and stop this fucking nonsense before you crash or runover a cyclist or pedestrian.

If you cannot control them when in the car you are endangering other people big time.

Absolutely bollock them and scare the hell out of them.

Totally unnecessary.

My kids are coming up 5 and 3 earlier this year my dd started this too and I knocked it on the head asap.

the kids know once the car is in motion you pack it in and behave.

You just need to be really firm and make it clear dangerous behaviour has consequences.

Anything fun or optional like weekends....
before hand you explain what's going to happen. And you explain you could all endu up in hospital or dead.
If they do it ypu pull over rebuckle and have a stern word. The start to proceed home.
At home no tv, no sweet treat and a hair wash at bedtime for good measure.
Post feed pre bedtime rankings you say - i dont want you dead or injured this will happen every time now.
Tomorrow we will try again.

For mandatory trips - pre trip pep talk, nice music and a bribe. The classic "chocolate button" or mini marshmallow works wonders in our house.

For you yourself try not to get stressed and get a grip and enforce safety

You need to address this asap - you are going to kill or injure someone otherwise.

Hazards on and you slow right down, stop as soon as yiu reasonably can. Just like you'd do if you had some other safety issue e.g. bakes issue. It's no different. Sounds like where we live, even the narrowest lanes have passing points, farm gateways etc which you can pull into for an emergency.

Also, worth mentioning that I'm experiencing something similar with my 8 year old - lots of his friends are out of car seats and he isn't tall enough yet. I firmly explain that it's the law, it's out of my control and he cannot travel unless he's safe. And we don't go unless he's willing to comply. He has a moan, but grudgingly accepts it. Most 5yo's can understand this reasoning.

Leave early and stop each time they misbehave or go straight home and no screens etc as a consequence

There's nothing like an emergency stop to make kids pay attention. From a slow speed, and with no other traffic around, but that should be easy with rural roads. An unexpected physical jolt combined with a bollocking is an effective shock.

It sounds like the bickering and dickishness comes before them taking their belts off: don't let it escalate that far. Pick them up on the attitude the moment it gets too much.

This isn’t an option. It’s extremely dangerous. Buy an extra lock and harness for the car seats. If you’re going somewhere fun bring them straight home. Punish them for bad behaviour once your home, enough to know that you mean business.

No need to shout - I have never shouted at my children and I don’t allow them too either

To add. A little horror story of truth is okay in these circumstances.
I told DS about an imaginary child who fell out the upstairs windows, her head cracked open like an egg, she had to leave her family to go to heaven. He stopped attempting to escape out windows.

I'd put the older one in the front tbh. Then you can see what he is doing, they can't fight, and he can't unbuckle the younger one.

I'd also start absolutely losing my fucking shit over it. We had a phase of this with one of mine, which rumbled on for a while with me patiently explaining it wasn't ok, and stopping the car when it happened, etc etc. But I am not ashamed to say that when my child's leg suddenly appeared in the gap between driver and passenger seats trying to climb into the front while I was on the fucking M5, I yelled at him GET BACK IN YOUR SEAT RIGHT NOW so loud my throat hurt afterwards and slapped said leg quite hard 😬 Obviously I do not recommend that as a parenting strategy. But that, combined with the huge bollocking he got as soon as I stopped the car at the next services, did the trick and it didn't happen again...

This is good advice.

When my ADHD son was about 4 he went through a similar stage - I lost my shit at him and then noticed a police car and told him they were coming to arrest mummy because he wouldn't keep buckled in 🙈

My way worked but the advice above is better!

Crelling Harnesses might work for you here.
Wont stop the bickering though

Couldn't you use something like this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Barrier-Adjustable-Divider-Storage-Pockets/dp/B0H4Z9LGGC/ref=sr_1_44?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.N3j2cCi6aLWo0ze1HMmSHhp4rxgd6Hp65sbttVO0Qe7Atht9pIXyGGHisi2VwedWlKs79_MN9eviI8IushyC-m1qJHkWsggsiP1rZ5wOLT-zmOuAKlBY0SKyvG9Z5GnypTuS-widDWQS_vJxx1IUwj0pK6DommOgrAek33mRROl62s8t1nMsUElgMyPW0-0TdPTtaOcjO4pZv0-_9POc65ZTThkrxxqrK0f9UCpPB93xJ-caKep4ZwAJXJBbq2RYZaIg0GTC2USYs5m6mkm8RrgSZoizDlzoT_IsN04uh5o._i7wGizqUZ43ZoaL0xYYx7cco-CmldU-6000tAwPQ9s&dib_tag=se&keywords=car+seat+divider&qid=1786174359&sr=8-44

You could attach it to the rear headrest & round the car seat base buckle, then attach to the front seat? Then neither of the kids could unbuckle the other as they can't get through the mesh?

This is the only option . My ND kid never listens to me but they tried the seatbelt thing once and I lost my mind as it was so dangerous. Never tried it again.

Been there done that. I am sure not everyone will agree with this tactic but it worked really quickly with min
Get ready to go somewhere they really want to go-park/friends/seaside
Give them a warning before you get in the car that if they misbehave just once you will immediately turn the car around and drive home. Make it clear what is and isn’t acceptable-no unbuckling seatbelts etc.
The most important point is-follow through with what you have said-no second and third chances, turn around and go home.
Calmly explain that they were told not to do xyz but they did it anyway so that is why they are no longer going to park/friends/seaside.
Rinse and repeat every time.

You have to set up a fantastic treat, that you know will probably not happen. Ideally on a route where you can stop easily.

Tell them we are going to wherever, but you MUST behave in the car, and the minute they start the nonsense, turn around and go home. Don't even wait for them to get the seatbelt off, so it is safer to turn around!
Have something ordinary planned for the day so you are not disappointing yourself with the lack of the day out.

Damn, they are clever little B*s aren't they?

I get this, I had one who tried doing mad things in the back of the car and you can’t always pull over.

I recommend waiting until you don’t have anything on you have to go to for a couple of days and deliberately planning some drives on routes you know you can pull over safely. The purpose of which is solely to ‘train’ your children how to ride in the car safely. Then you can do the pulling over thing that PP’s suggest as many times as you deem necessary without the added stress of needing to get somewhere/on a dual carriageway because you’re only in the car to train the kids.

This is what I did. I was very frank about what I was doing- unfortunately, because you are so dangerous in the car, we are going to have to spend the next couple of days learning how to be safe instead of xyz more desirable activities. I will be looking to check you stay strapped in and not making lots of noise so I can concentrate on the road. We will keep doing it until you have learned to behave.

I went over the potential consequences of being dangerous in the car every time we stopped and explained he was putting himself and me in danger, so I had to stop the car. Mummy felt scared because we weren’t safe, so I had to stop the car. You need to look and sound scared/alarmed when you deliver the speech, or they won’t take it seriously (or at least mine wouldn’t!)

I imagine the consequences of behaving so dangerously might be lost on the younger one, but the older one is old enough to understand that a) the police could pull you over if they see children without seatbelts on and you’d be in serious trouble and b) if there was a crash, they would be seriously injured or killed. And being silly and distracting mummy while she’s driving could cause a crash because drivers need to focus on the road. Mummy and daddy will keep you safe in most situations but we CAN’T keep you safe if you’re deliberately putting yourself and the rest of the family in danger while we’re driving a car.

A copy of Strewelpeter needs to be bought!

My cousins used to do this and my uncle once was so stressed by them so drove straight to the police station! Both cousins were still fighting and scrambling over the front seats so didn't notice. My uncle called a police officer over and asked him to have stern words with his kids! It actually worked, they never did it again, I'm surprised he didn't crash the car while he was driving. My cousins were really feral as kids.

Hear hear.

Not good enough when it comes to the risk that they pose to other people on the road.
We had a chest lock seatbelt for DS. There are options.
If they cannot behave in the car then they don’t go in the car, tough shit, some poor family will be burying their loved one because OP can’t control her DC or invest in seat belt locks.
If she puts one in the front, which isn’t safe with an airbag they squabble over who sits in the front seat.
Watch a few Super-nanny episodes.

Wonder how your kids will cope if someone else shouts at them? Crunple into tears?

So tell them that the following Saturday or whenever, you are planning a trip to fantastic x place but any car shenanigans before then will mean it won’t take place. Should prevent returning home shenanigans and if it doesn’t they miss out on a trip.
or
Tell them after a bout of bad behaviour, that you were planning a trip this weekend (even if you weren’t) and that now you aren’t going. They will think they’ve missed out. Then say that depending on their behaviour over the next x time, you may consider going then. You could pencil in a date ahead and tick off each day of good behaviour. But be strict and follow through.