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to ask why people still do not believe that Islamophobia doesn’t exist and therefore doesn’t need an official definition?

332 replies

AdvicePleas · 02/08/2024 00:43

This is a question for the general public , After the recent events , where a horrific unimaginable event that has left a community and parents shattered , reeling from the loss of their babies - the first thing that a significant group did was to attack who they thought were to blame.
and it was the Muslim community.
without verification , confirmation , the hatred was palpable -it was always there.

As a muslim ; every time something like this happens, I know all of us pause and are frightened whether the perpetrators are Muslim and - when they are not - then there are no fingers pointed to whether their religion is to blame for their actions.
the entire community isn’t put to trial.
I am so sad for the senseless loss that the parents and families are going through.
My heart goes our to them,
as my friend who is a hijab wearing Muslim said earlier today -thank god he wasn’t Muslim otherwise they would have come and killed us in our sleep. It hit me to the core how much some people hate us?
I feel this is an injustice to my 70 year old mother who prays 5 times a day, loves her god and has not harmed a single person in her life , my sister who is a confidant professional woman but will not travel out of multi cultural areas for fear of being attacked.

still the government refused to put an official definition for Islamophobia?
having grown experiencing huge levels of it in the early 90/ , I feel that those that do not believe that the Muslim community are hated by other for simply being Muslim are just ignoring it or are part of the problem .
I feel sad for my children , who don’t speak the language their parents speak, only belong to this country but look visibly different and belong to a religion that is hated so much and the government can’t protect them.

OP posts:
Polarnight · 02/08/2024 07:10

A phobia is an irrational fear. I'd say the fear isn't always irrational

pandasorous · 02/08/2024 07:11

MoobyMoo · 02/08/2024 07:08

@GiveMeSpanakopita posted it for you above:

Since 2000 in the UK there have been 97 terrorist (defined in law) murders. In 94 cases the murderers were Muslims.

This is exactly why people are terrified of terrorist attacks from Muslims. This is exactly why people assume any terrorist attack is done by a Muslim.

It is a legitimate concern.

where are your stats from please?

Brina89 · 02/08/2024 07:11

pandasorous · 02/08/2024 07:07

why do we have to criticise other people's faiths at all? I am a practising Muslim and never in my 40 years of life have I felt the need to criticise any other faith or lack of faith. why can't we just be happy to live and let live

Because Islam doesn't allow for live and let live.

Gummybear23 · 02/08/2024 07:11

Brina89 · 02/08/2024 07:04

You say that non Muslims ignore and don't speak out. That's exactly how I feel about the Muslim community when there's a terrorist attack. There's never outrage from other peaceful Muslims.

Although you may practice a peaceful version of Islam, Islam itself discriminates against women and girls. You are not seen as equal to men. As a feminist I will never think this is ok.

Did all catholics apologise when IRA attacks were done.
Like hell we did.
Nobody berated us?
So why do muslims have to apologise for the behaviour and conduct of anyone committing these crimes.

Hangingupnow · 02/08/2024 07:11

@pandasorous during the 70s and 80s do you really think there was no anti-Irish sentiment?

I didn’t say elsewhere & wouldn’t deny it. Societies tend to focus on what’s happening to them though.

scatterolight · 02/08/2024 07:12

"every time something like this happens, I know all of us pause and are frightened whether the perpetrators are Muslim"

My question to you is why, when something happens, do you immediately worry they are Muslim? Aren't they as likely to be Muslim as they are Buddhist, or Jewish, or Christian?

Monkeysatonthewall · 02/08/2024 07:13

I was actually thinking last night about how the peaceful Muslims must be devastated every time there's a crime, and especially a horrific one, committed by Muslims.
I happen to live in a predominantly white area and haven't actually met many Muslims other than at uni but would think that the tensions in Muslim community are hight at the times like this.

It's so sad though.

Hangingupnow · 02/08/2024 07:13

Did all catholics apologise when IRA attacks were done.

The Troubles were not a religious conflict though…

Marchitectmummy · 02/08/2024 07:13

pandasorous · 02/08/2024 06:32

no one is asking you to accept Islam. you are free to believe what you want and others are free to believe what they want.
Islam absolutely does not treat women as second class citizens, quite the opposite. Muslims obviously have issues with misogyny, as do people of all backgrounds.

the majority of mosques in the country are run by old men who are playing village politics and they don't just exclude women, they exclude the whole community.

plenty of mosques were open to women during covid, except when they were totally closed to everyone. perhaps you should worry more about paedophilia in the Catholic church than a few old men getting power trips on being on control of mosque committees?

My best friend is female and Muslim, but has what she describes herself as modern views and as such she has identified and bern fighting for many rights.

One is the right for women to pray in mosques in tbe UK more frequently. She has told me if a mosque has a single storey or 1 room only men will be able to pray. If there is only one entrance only men will be permitted to go in. And tbe sadest of all frequently when a new mosque has been built that is two atoeys, she specifically mentioned one in Tower Hamlets, the 1st floor which was intended to allow for women to pray has been turned into a teaching space by the Imran rather than a space for women.

She has dedicated quite a lot of life to trying to fight this and has failed so not sure she would agree its a minority of mosques with men playing village politics.

pandasorous · 02/08/2024 07:13

scatterolight · 02/08/2024 07:12

"every time something like this happens, I know all of us pause and are frightened whether the perpetrators are Muslim"

My question to you is why, when something happens, do you immediately worry they are Muslim? Aren't they as likely to be Muslim as they are Buddhist, or Jewish, or Christian?

because Muslims are attacked if they are muslim

Monkeysatonthewall · 02/08/2024 07:14

scatterolight · 02/08/2024 07:12

"every time something like this happens, I know all of us pause and are frightened whether the perpetrators are Muslim"

My question to you is why, when something happens, do you immediately worry they are Muslim? Aren't they as likely to be Muslim as they are Buddhist, or Jewish, or Christian?

I think the OP kind of explained in the original post that other religions don't get questioned.

pandasorous · 02/08/2024 07:15

Marchitectmummy · 02/08/2024 07:13

My best friend is female and Muslim, but has what she describes herself as modern views and as such she has identified and bern fighting for many rights.

One is the right for women to pray in mosques in tbe UK more frequently. She has told me if a mosque has a single storey or 1 room only men will be able to pray. If there is only one entrance only men will be permitted to go in. And tbe sadest of all frequently when a new mosque has been built that is two atoeys, she specifically mentioned one in Tower Hamlets, the 1st floor which was intended to allow for women to pray has been turned into a teaching space by the Imran rather than a space for women.

She has dedicated quite a lot of life to trying to fight this and has failed so not sure she would agree its a minority of mosques with men playing village politics.

I said majority of mosques are like this.
I agree it's an issue but it's more complicated than just exclusion of women
I know because I have been fighting with these old men for some time

Polarnight · 02/08/2024 07:15

Brina89 · 02/08/2024 07:11

Because Islam doesn't allow for live and let live.

Islam doesn't recognise Sikhism either. Because it came after Islam.

Islam rather dangerously says our religion is the last and final one. There can be no more after this, this is God's last word.

That's straight away a temptation to violence and intolerance.

Gummybear23 · 02/08/2024 07:15

scatterolight · 02/08/2024 07:12

"every time something like this happens, I know all of us pause and are frightened whether the perpetrators are Muslim"

My question to you is why, when something happens, do you immediately worry they are Muslim? Aren't they as likely to be Muslim as they are Buddhist, or Jewish, or Christian?

They always mentioned IRA not the catholism when the IRA committed the attacks.

Hangingupnow · 02/08/2024 07:17

This is from the Contest report

“Islamic terrorism represented 67% of attacks since 2018, 75% of MI5's caseload, and 64% of those in custody for terrorism-connected offences according to the 2023 CONTEST report”

United Kingdom prison population - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_prison_population#Religious_group

Marchitectmummy · 02/08/2024 07:17

pandasorous · 02/08/2024 07:15

I said majority of mosques are like this.
I agree it's an issue but it's more complicated than just exclusion of women
I know because I have been fighting with these old men for some time

You are right, my mistake apologies.

Hangingupnow · 02/08/2024 07:19

They always mentioned IRA not the catholism when the IRA committed the attacks.

@Gummybear23 why do you think the IRA were bombing in the name of Catholicism?

pandasorous · 02/08/2024 07:19

Brina89 · 02/08/2024 07:11

Because Islam doesn't allow for live and let live.

literally says in the Quran "to you your religion and to me my religion"
it also says if you kill one person it is as if you have killed all of mankind.

Muslims can be awful people. just like everyone else. intolerance can be found among all people. nothing to do with the religion.

Usercyzabc · 02/08/2024 07:20

pandasorous · 02/08/2024 07:10

you can't complain about lack of integration in communities and then not want to participate in solving the problem?
and 3. it's important for people to grow up understanding their friends and neighbours
again you can't complain about lack of cohesion and then bury your head like an ostrich and not want to know about others in society

having read your posts, it's very obvious that my point 3. would have been helpful and stopped you from having ignorant, racist opinions

Edited

I am not complaining, through am I and your suggestion infers I’m ignorant of other cultures, which is laughable.

You also are missing that assimilation in this context is one way, forget about understanding other cultures for a second, if you want to argue that point. The point I am making, that yes best to solve the issues, but usually if someone create an issue they need to course correct, in any context not just this, rather than expect others to clean up the mess.

Werweisswohin · 02/08/2024 07:20

I am not sure why there needs to be specific 'islamophobia' legislation tbh - hate crime laws should surely cover this? It's not okay to treat a person in a negative way because of their religion or to prevent them from following their religion, but it is definitely okay to question religious belief systems in general. Free speech allows us to do that.
I also think it's confusing to mix religion with ethnicity and/or skin colour - while certain religions might sometimes 'tend' to be more linked to specific ethnicity or colour, there aren't hard and fast rules.

KatieCrusoe · 02/08/2024 07:20

I see all religions as a mechanism, made up by men, to control their world and "their" women. No phobia, I just marvel that people can be convinced to believe in any of them.
That aside, I have Muslim family members who live close to me. Their personal views of this country, based on their religious and cultural perspective, is shocking and not something they voice outside of the home.
I suppose you could say they have their own phobia.

I don't believe anyone should be persecuted in any way. I do believe we need sensible laws but blasphemy type laws, no.

pandasorous · 02/08/2024 07:22

Polarnight · 02/08/2024 07:15

Islam doesn't recognise Sikhism either. Because it came after Islam.

Islam rather dangerously says our religion is the last and final one. There can be no more after this, this is God's last word.

That's straight away a temptation to violence and intolerance.

Edited

all religions say it's the right one
what's the point of believing if you don't believe your religion is the right one
tolerance is thinking your belief is correct but respecting the right of others to hold different beliefs even if you don't agree with them
I eat meat, I don't agree with veganism as I think it's bad for us. but I can respect other people's right to be vegan.

Lilysgoneshopping · 02/08/2024 07:24

Garlicfest · 02/08/2024 01:42

I am extremely wary of any law which can be used to make valid criticism an offence.

Me, too. Thank you for your perfectly expressed post.

Spot on
Yet another attempt to stifle free speech

pandasorous · 02/08/2024 07:25

Usercyzabc · 02/08/2024 07:20

I am not complaining, through am I and your suggestion infers I’m ignorant of other cultures, which is laughable.

You also are missing that assimilation in this context is one way, forget about understanding other cultures for a second, if you want to argue that point. The point I am making, that yes best to solve the issues, but usually if someone create an issue they need to course correct, in any context not just this, rather than expect others to clean up the mess.

you can laugh all you want. I am not laughing
the racists and ignorants create the issues
and even when a Muslim is being positive (read my points 1 and 2), your internalised hatred will not ever accept it or see it in a positive light because what you really want is for the Muslims to go away all together
you can't be bothered to learn about our beliefs or concerns. you are the one that wants a one way street
and you were complaining about lack of cohesion, maybe read your own posts back?

Korblimee · 02/08/2024 07:25

MoobyMoo · 02/08/2024 06:51

People aren’t scared of terrorist attacks from Hindus or Christians or Jews or Buddhists or Sikhs.

They’re afraid of them from Muslims. For a reason.

It’s an uncomfortable truth, but it’s the truth none the less. Throwing names around doesn’t change that.

I’m afraid this is the truth, however unpleasant it is