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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Trans Teen Survival Guide by Fox and Owl

185 replies

womensvoicesmatter · 16/02/2019 15:28

I was curious what's being peddled to teens, so I got the book. I'm only a few pages in and pretty horrified, so I thought I'd share it with you lot.

(This might take some time though, I don't have a lot of free time right now!)

Even the inscription is enraging. The book is dedicated to their trans friend who committed suicide. It's not a subtle few words, it's a whol page including a cartoon of this person with a halo. And it says the book is based on the blog they wrote on tumblr.

While of course I'm sad for Fox and Owl that their friend died, and I recognise that to lose someone to suicide is a terrible trauma I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, I also think it's deeply irresponsible to start a book aimed at teenagers, lauding someone who killed themselves - especially given the popular myths and misuse of suicide stats about trans kids.

It makes me suspicious of the book before we've even started. What kind of propaganda lies within?

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OhHolyJesus · 16/02/2019 15:38

It already sounds deeply irresponsible. Intrigued to know more so thanks in advance for sharing details as I sure as hell won't be buying it and filling their pockets for to further their 'activism' 🙄

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womensvoicesmatter · 16/02/2019 15:40

First page of chapter 1. Are they going to tell us what trans is? Well not really, if you feel a bit different you're trans, basically. Or, you're trans if you want to be. Everybody welcome! (Just not those awful cis people, but you wouldn't want to be one of them - would you? But I'm jumping ahead, that comes later... )

Let's try to figure out what being trans actually is and what it actually means.

Sounds promising - yes, a definition please! Oh but sorry, my mistake, definitions are bad, apparently...

The trouble with providing definitions and ticking boxes is that it leads to oversimplification. There isn't a single definitive answer to the question of what it means to be trans, because there is no one way to be trans! There are so many trans people and they are so diverse that there isn't a universal experience that is more trans or truly trans.

Gender is a complicated social construct, and trying to define it, or people within it, is quite hard! So let this be a guide - or an offering of possibilities - to what it might or might not mean to you. But just remember that ultimately it's you who defines who you are, whether that's as a trans person or not. The short answer, though is this: Trans people are people who don't identify with the gender that they were assigned at birth

They continue into the "long answer" which includes a load more waffle, such as

"It's a bit like you signed up for a French Class, but when you got there everyone is speaking Spanish. Something just isn't the way it should be. So, essentially, being trans means you aren't actually the boy or girl everyone seems to think you are, It means that your inner sense of self - your gender identity - is something different. Whether it's that you're actually a girl, or a boy, or a non-binary (people who aren't fully boys or girls), and the main thing is that you're not what most people think you are."

"Something just isn't the way it should be. So, essentially, being trans means you aren't actually the boy or girl everyone seems to think you are," Doesn't that just describe teenage angst?! They're trying to welcome in ever kids who feels a bit different, aren't they?

Nowhere (as far as I can see so far) does it say - feeling different from other people and unsure of your body is a NORMAL part of puberty as is rejecting gender norms. It doesn't mean you're trans!

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womensvoicesmatter · 16/02/2019 15:41

Gah! Should say:

They're trying to welcome in every kids who feels a bit different, aren't they?

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LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/02/2019 15:43

This reply has been deleted

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womensvoicesmatter · 16/02/2019 15:44

There's a simplified version of the trans umbrella with MASSIVE black "cis" raindrops falling down on it.

Well done that trans umbrella, for protecting all the readers of this book from those scary cis people raining down on them!

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calpop · 16/02/2019 15:46

Aren't fox and owl the nale and female in a relationship together? i.e a bog standard hetero couple?

Why are they speaking for trans people?

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LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/02/2019 15:46

Because they are special 🙄

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womensvoicesmatter · 16/02/2019 15:49

Then more stuff about it's up to you if you're trans.

Those who aren't sure if they're trans are directed to well known indoctrination channels to make sure they're trans information sources e.g. a trans "support group", trans people on tumblr, youtube and instagram, to see if their stories "resonate".

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womensvoicesmatter · 16/02/2019 15:51

Next up, gender & sex - but must go look after the DC first. (This is going to be slow, sorry!)

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FloralBuntingIsObnoxious · 16/02/2019 15:57

They've 'swapped' gender roles, taken hormones and had surgery. Initially they were your basic trans MTF and FTM, but we're talking about popular high priests of Genderism, so it wouldn't do to have the same designation as the masses.
So they assume the title Non Binary, and no doubt will go through any number of other further transcending transformations as the ideology shifts to maintain their position.

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LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/02/2019 16:02

So they have made a very very minority life decision and are going around trying to persuade kids to do the same? On what planet?

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StealthPolarBear · 16/02/2019 16:09

Do these people have jobs? I always wonder how these navel gazers pay the mortgage and put food on the table

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LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/02/2019 16:23

Doing talks at schools...

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DodoPatrol · 16/02/2019 16:36

Is everyone else getting an advert saying ‘Transform your body! £3 a week’

Or is it just that my phone has w weird sense of humour?

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zen1 · 16/02/2019 17:02

So they talk about gender being a social construct, but then say ‘trans people don’t identify with the gender they were assigned at birth’?

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Anlaf · 16/02/2019 17:05

Ooh excellent thread, thank you.

I once watched most of fox's youtube channel content, including a piece where fox - then a young lesbian called Rachel - talked movingly of being a victim of sexual abuse as a child.

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Thingybob · 16/02/2019 17:09

I've just been on Amazon and there are several pages that can be read online via Look Inside.(No way would I buy the book) My review so far is that it is utter bollocks.

My highlight in the first couple of pages is;

'This means when we're born, medical professionals take a look at our genitals (gross, we know!), classify us as male or female and assign us the gender 'boy' or 'girl' according to what they see down below'

Where to start? Well first up what is gross about a babies genitals? Babies are not born with modesty, toilet trained or able to dress themselves so they have their genitals on display to numerous people for several years and no normal person bats an eyelid or thinks it 'gross'. Sorry Fox and Owl but the 'gross' comment makes you sound creepy.

Next when babies are born everyone in the room can see what sex the child is and no medical professional present (usually a midwife) has ever had training in identifying sex. The initial observations (APGAR) done on a baby have nothing to do with sex.

Finally it is the family and social groups that 'assign' gender and gender expectations on a baby, not NHS staff.

Amazon has several more pages of absolute waffle e.g. Gender is so complicated and impossible to define. Then 'Intersex' gets a mention by page 14. The last sentence on that page starts 'There are over 40 different......' I know how it is going to continue but luckily Amazon has page 15 missing to protect my blood pressure.

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StealthPolarBear · 16/02/2019 17:15

Hey I assigned my DD as a girl all by myself, no training needed! Hadn't realised I was so talented.
I've just realised what their names are making me think of. Oh fox, oh owl, don't you know, there's no such thing as a gruffalo

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NotTerfNorCis · 16/02/2019 17:17

gross, we know!

They're trying to spread the idea that associating male/female with genitalia is gross and creepy, and only a gross creep would do such a thing.

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DonaldTwain · 16/02/2019 17:17

Genitals gross? That is so messed up. Why is it in the interests of children to encourage them to feel distaste for their genitals?

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VickyEadie · 16/02/2019 17:33

Genitals gross? That is so messed up. Why is it in the interests of children to encourage them to feel distaste for their genitals?

I was 9 when my brother was born and saw his little todger on a daily basis. I didn't think it was gross at all, but perfectly natural.

Encouraging children to see genitals as "gross" is very, very manipulative.

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R0wantrees · 16/02/2019 17:36

Fox and Owl have had considerable media access and influence. Recent article demonstrates that Owl (Ugla Stefanía Kristjönudóttir Jónsdóttir) is also influencing policy in Iceland.

Both Fox and Owl changed their gender identities from trans man /woman to include the 'Non-Binary' descriptor.

'Iceland Set To Make Major Changes To Law Affecting Trans, Intersex And Non-Binary People'
(extract)
"The draft of a bill currently being prepared for Parliament would make several long-overdue changes to Icelandic law regarding trans, intersex and non-binary people. Grapevine spoke with two of the people who helped craft the legislation, who see it as a tremendously positive step that could put Iceland well ahead of the pack in these areas.

The draft in question, which is to be submitted by the Prime Minister at an as yet undetermined time, covers numerous facets of gender identity.

The broad strokes

If passed into law, people will be allowed to change their registered gender without having to endure a lengthy journey through the health care system. This change will only be permitted one time, barring exceptional circumstances. As it is now, changing one’s gender in the National Registry can involve having to meet with psychiatrists and other health care workers over a period of several months before approval. Furthermore, should this draft become law, registered gender will not be limited solely to male or female, either—people will also have the option of selecting a non-binary gender, which will be marked as “X” in passports. For the purposes of the draft, non-binary people are defined as trans." (continues)

Grapevine spoke with two of the people who helped construct the draft, chairperson of Intersex Iceland Kitty Anderson and writer and trans activist Ugla Stefanía Kristjönudóttir Jónsdóttir, who see this draft as just the beginning. (continues)

grapevine.is/news/2019/02/12/iceland-set-to-make-major-changes-to-law-affecting-trans-intersex-and-non-binary-people/?fbclid=IwAR14YknQkyLva03tr4VF94tzAsQhwDKkStEzSk2WFfHnN9Mb_-vYzvjlMWc

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LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/02/2019 17:52

We need to be clear - gender isn’t a ‘thing’ it’s just an airy fairy idea of how men and women should look and act. Why should this matter with regard to your rights? It shouldn’t.

Sex is another matter all together. It’s Biology, it’s science - it’s real and it does matter with regards to your rights.

So why are we debating the equivalent of whether Alien could kick Predators backside in an intergalactic fight?

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SonicVersusGynaephobia · 16/02/2019 18:35

I'm quite disturbed by their description of seeing newborn genitals being "gross".

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LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/02/2019 18:44

It’s the kids if thing a five year old would say ‘eeeooooow, willies! Yukky!’

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