Trans Teen Survival Guide by Fox and Owl

[womensvoicesmatter]

I was curious what's being peddled to teens, so I got the book. I'm only a few pages in and pretty horrified, so I thought I'd share it with you lot.

(This might take some time though, I don't have a lot of free time right now!)

Even the inscription is enraging. The book is dedicated to their trans friend who committed suicide. It's not a subtle few words, it's a whol page including a cartoon of this person with a halo. And it says the book is based on the blog they wrote on tumblr.

While of course I'm sad for Fox and Owl that their friend died, and I recognise that to lose someone to suicide is a terrible trauma I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, I also think it's deeply irresponsible to start a book aimed at teenagers, lauding someone who killed themselves - especially given the popular myths and misuse of suicide stats about trans kids.

It makes me suspicious of the book before we've even started. What kind of propaganda lies within?

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

[ToeToToe]

A blood test

Sex is observed at birth by looking at the baby's external genitalia. Midwives have been doing this since the year dot. No routine blood testing at birth is required.

Gender is bunk - societal imposed roles that we should all be disregarding in 2019. Disregarding - rather than artificially changing our children's bodies to match up with a particular gender.

[BernardBlacksWineIcelolly]

my childs sex i cant define that with out a blood test and dna evidence

Is your child a teenager yet? If they start bleeding from their genitals will you take them to the doctor or reassure them that it’s completely normal?

That’s a good indication

[ToeToToe]

Heather Brunskell-Evans's speech "The Transgender Child" at WNTT Bristol was somewhat overshadowed by the protestors in masks - but it is such an intelligent, thoughtful, well-researched talk.

Well worth listening to the end (because the beginning is distracted by her experience of the protestors) and thinking about. She's first up on the link.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

Nobody is assigned a gender at birth.

Sex is observed. Always at birth, very often before. If there’s any ambiguity whatsoever reporting can be delayed until a more thorough workup is done.

But that’s irrelevant- because intersex conditions are nothing to do with transgender

Call the midwife is fiction, you know that ?

[Bowlofbabelfish]

Wait till they identify? But why?

You can’t change sex. They’re Male, or female and will be from conception. So you’re saying either that

1. You believe humans can pick their sex
   

Or

1. At childhood or whenever we must pick a side and only like the stereotypes associated with one sex?
   

Don’t you see how peculiar that is?

What can’t a girl like ‘boy stuff’ and be a girl? She can’t ever change sex.

You dont believe humans can change sex, surely? That’s the only way any of what you say would make sense

[RockyFlintstone]

Sex my childs sex i cant define that with out a blood test and dna evidence

And yet, humans have always seemed to be able to tell which class of humans to rape, sexually assault, murder at birth, deny an abortion to, deny an education to, deny employment to, deny the vote to.

All without the need for blood tests or DNA samples.

Clever huh?

[RockyFlintstone]

As for advisibg children to cut ties with family who dont except then. How about you talk to the children who have been thrown out of there homes becouse there not accepted. Becouse there gay, bi, trans

I'm not talking about those children. Those children of course need help and support.

I am talking about children whose parents do not want them to take drugs that will have irreversible effects on their bodies, or cut off healthy body parts. Children who are being told to cut ties with their parents, simply because their parents don't believe that humans can change sex.

[calpop]

I knew the sex of my children while still pregnant as I had CVS tests done (due to an inherited condition) and as part of that they look at all chromosomes, including the sex chromosomes. I do sometimes wonder if a simple blood test at birth (or before, now that they can be done non-invasively) might actually be a good idea. Then everyone would know, in the vast majority of cases, that they had a genetically entirely normal male or female, which might help with all the "special snowflake, my child is different/special/born in the wrong body nonsense". And if a baby did have a DSD aka intersex condition, everyone would know from day 1 and appropriate designations and medical interventions could be made - rather than terrible shocks at puberty, if its not immediately obvious that there's a difference at birth.

[Datun]

Oh yess actual questions. Sex my childs sex i cant define that with out a blood test and dna evidence.

If this isn't bad enough, you back it up with recommending people watch a fictionalised television programme in support of your argument!

Which, in case it escaped your notice, is set in the 1950s and 60s.

Dear lord. There are 6500 genetic differences between men and women.

If you need to demand a DNA test because you can't see them, I suggest you see an optician (and an ENT).

It also begs the question that if you can't tell someone's sex without a DNA test, why don't we immediately dispense with facial feminisation surgery, silicone breast implants, and female hormones.

#translogic

[terryleather]

At childhood or whenever we must pick a side and only like the stereotypes associated with one sex?

Don’t you see how peculiar that is?

Not only is it peculiar it's pretty much saying that millions of women, according to genderist logic, have picked the lesser side in the gender hierarchy and must therefore identify with their own oppression and be quite happy with it otherwise they'd have identified out of it.

Fucking insulting doesn't begin to cover it.

[LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD]

So debate please the content of the book...... After you have bought it an read the full thing

I’m not going to line their pockets. Their beliefs and commentary is blasted out in social media and the pair visits schools to dispense their hot air, so it’s all pretty documented. I’m guessing the book is more of the same? Or am I wrong? Do they tell kids to speak to their parents and find out who they are before making life changing decisions?

[SarahCarer]

Mitasuki42 I have a question for you. My dd has always chosen her clothes from the box labelled 'boy' so to speak and as soon as puberty became imminent she began to become dysphoric, hating her body, threatening suicide and insisting that she needed puberty blockers. I refused to affirm the idea that she had a male brain. I presented to her a clear explanation that society imposes gendered expectations on all of us and we don't have to accept them, that she is who she is and that there is nothing wrong with her brain or her body and that she is definitely not male and is undoubtedly female. I explained to her that male and female refer to our biology and that all other ideas about what male and female mean are socially constructed bullshit. I did not and will not affirm the idea that she has a male brain. This goes against all the advice from trans writers and activists. Would you agree or disagree with my approach?

[LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD]

My sister always wore ‘boys’ clothes, played with action man and cars and was a hell of a tomboy. She is gay you pricks not a fucking wannabe man!

Thank Christ this lot weren’t around on the 79s and 80s to poison her mind and persuade her to agree to mutilate he own body. She is raging about alll this crap now.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

Nursie: Out you popped and everyone’s shouting: “It’s a boy, it’s a boy!” And somebody said: “But it hasn’t got a winkle!” And I said: “God be praised, it’s a miracle. A boy without a winkle!” And then Sir Thomas More pointed out that a boy without a winkle is a girl. Everyone was really disappointed.

Melchett: Yes, he was a very perceptive man, Sir Thomas More.

We’ve gone beyond parody ...

[R0wantrees]

Heather Brunskell-Evans's speech "The Transgender Child" at WNTT Bristol was somewhat overshadowed by the protestors in masks - but it is such an intelligent, thoughtful, well-researched talk.

see also Feminist Current podcast, MARCH 18, 2018
'Heather Brunskell-Evans wants to talk about the idea of ‘trans kids’

"Heather Brunskell-Evans was the National Spokesperson for the Women’s Equality Party Policy on Ending Sexual Violence until she started asking critical questions about “trans kids.” In this episode, Meghan Murphy talks to her about her perspective and the response from the Party."

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/18/podcast-heather-brunskell-evans-wants-talk-idea-trans-kids/

[BettyDuMonde]

I’m just amazed that a person who needed a DNA test in order to recognise their child’s biological sex was able to figure out the mechanics required to make that baby in the first place!

🐦 🐝

[Bowlofbabelfish]

I’m just amazed that a person who needed a DNA test in order to recognise their child’s biological sex was able to figure out the mechanics required to make that baby in the first place!

Here is a good place to say that 0.017% of live births are of babies where there is genuine ambiguity. Most disorders of sexual development are very obviously Male or female, for example Turner syndrome (female.) cases where there is genuine ambiguity are very, very rare.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12476264/

And also a good place to say that issues like PCOS and hypospadias are NOT intersex conditions at all.

[Datun]

'ere bowl where d'ya come up with that then? Call the Midwife?

[Bowlofbabelfish]

Of course! I get all my data from TV.

Period dramas, one might say ;)

[Datun]

🤣

[littlbrowndog]

😂😂😂

[Arkengarthdale]

Ba boom tish! That was very funny 😂

[NotTerfNorCis]

Fox's response to this thread: twitter.com/theFoxFisher/status/1098674710479544326

Apparently we 'transpired' on Mumsnet to give bad reviews.