Trans Teen Survival Guide by Fox and Owl

[womensvoicesmatter]

I was curious what's being peddled to teens, so I got the book. I'm only a few pages in and pretty horrified, so I thought I'd share it with you lot.

(This might take some time though, I don't have a lot of free time right now!)

Even the inscription is enraging. The book is dedicated to their trans friend who committed suicide. It's not a subtle few words, it's a whol page including a cartoon of this person with a halo. And it says the book is based on the blog they wrote on tumblr.

While of course I'm sad for Fox and Owl that their friend died, and I recognise that to lose someone to suicide is a terrible trauma I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, I also think it's deeply irresponsible to start a book aimed at teenagers, lauding someone who killed themselves - especially given the popular myths and misuse of suicide stats about trans kids.

It makes me suspicious of the book before we've even started. What kind of propaganda lies within?

[Vixxxy]

substitute trans with black and if what you've written sounds racists, then you are being transphobic'. Try it.

There is no such thing as a black 3 year old.

Nah not feeling it.

[LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD]

Transphobia - nope people aren’t scared of transsexuals just pissed that any twit can say ‘Iook at me, I’m trans!’ And expect the red carped whilst kissing on woman’s rights. Transmen just don’t stop around like godzilla (male before you ask) demanding that ‘cis men’ step aside, bow down and suck their men... (you can fill in the rest yourself).

Screaming ‘transphobic’ at every comment means nothing, yes we are expected to be scared? Funny how I’ve never heard the term ‘homophonic’ or ‘mysoginist’ having quite the same effect.

[NotTerfNorCis]

substitute trans with black and if what you've written sounds racists, then you are being transphobic'. Try it.

"I was assigned white at birth, but from an early age I knew I wasn't what everyone said I was - I knew I was black. Luckily there were groups like Mermaids that encouraged me to express my black identity."

[LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD]

I think I identify as a super rich housewife. Will anyone support me in this?

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

substitute trans with black and if what you've written sounds racists, then you are being transphobic'. Try it.

"I always felt black, the things I played with and way I dressed let me know I was really black not white."

[CocoWild]

Dear members of (d)um(b)snet, I am a lesbian mother of two and I remember (not so long ago) people like in this thread were discussing my rights to have children and my right to get married, And whether it would bring humanity to its knees. Nowadays, if you are homophobic and you think a small group of people do not deserve the same life and rights as white, heterosexuals then you are well, plainly put a bit of a ‘poohead’ as my five year old would say.
The only thing that is toxic in these comments are the parents who think it is ok to teach their children intolerance of another and dismiss people’s feelings because they themselves have never felt this way, therefore it must be wrong. I hope none of your children come out as trans, well actually I do hope they do...so you can finally feel compassion and understanding towards people who are not like you.
Give them space.

[NotTerfNorCis]

Sexual orientation is in a rather different league to extensive irreversible surgery.

[Lumene]

substitute trans with black and if what you've written sounds racists, then you are being transphobic'. Try it.

“I don’t think it’s really appropriate for you to black up like that. It is insulting to people who are actually black.”

[calpop]

Nobody, in the 15 years Ive been visiting mumsnet, has ever, ever, had an issue with lesbians or gay marriage. In fact, it's always been very, very pro lesbian. You are badly misinformed.

Being concerned about the TRA movement, erasing lesbians and women, transing young kids and making them sterile has absolutely zero to do with sexual orientation or gay rights. You are deluded if you think that.

[LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD]

Dear DumbCocoWild - who said what now? Don’t be such a pillock. Why wish on anyone a child in mental turmoil with the desire to make medical and surgical changes to their body?

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

Some of the posters here under the trans umbrella and some have transchildren.

Not wanting children to rush into medication and mutilation of their body before they are old enoough to shave is pretty sensible.

What exactly has it got to do with homosexuals (of which there is also a large bunch here)?

[HawayMan]

Hello @CocoWild

Firstly, many people on the feminism boards are lesbian, bisexual, or gay.

Secondly, most people here are also transgender (according to Stonewall's definition of transgender).

Therefore, most of us are speaking from experience.

[RockyFlintstone]

Hello CocoWild.

This is not about 'dismissing feelings'. This is about concern that children are being told that if they don't conform to the stereotypes mostly commonly associated with their sex, that there may be something 'wrong' with them, that needs 'correcting'.

This is about concern that young women are mutilating their bodies by using breast binders or cutting off their perfectly healthy breasts. Or using irreversible life changing drugs which will render them infertile forever.

This is about concern that children are being led down a path from which there is no coming back.

This is about certain figures seemingly using similar tactics to that of abusers in order to make children believe that they have to make irreversible changes to their bodies to be their 'authentic self'. Because how they actually are apparently isn't acceptable.

When you came out as a lesbian, did you have to have surgery or take drugs in order to be 'who you truly are'? If not, then it's not in any way the same is it, so your argument is, quite frankly, a load of bollocks.

Signed, a (d)um(b) snet user.

[TowelNumber42]

Coco, what if one of your children came out as gender non-conforming and gay? Butch lesbian or effeminate gay man? Would you want them to accept themselves and their sexuality or would you suggest they start taking drugs, hacking off body parts and announcing that they must be in the wrong body?

[Vixxxy]

Transideology is inherintly homophobic. Thats not to say all trans people are homophobic of course, but a hell of a lot of transactivists are (I am sure as a lesbian, you will be horrified by the cotton ceiling. Unless you are a male lesbian) and the thoughts that feminine boys must actually be trans..for example, is rather problematic. As is the rush to shove drugs that have irreversible effects, including but not limited to permanent sterilisation onto young children, because they follow the wrong stereotypes.

[Datun]

Dear members of (d)um(b)snet, I am a lesbian mother of two

Now what do you mean by that? You are a male bodied individual who has impregnated a woman?

[CocoWild]

I can’t find the right words to respond to arrogance and ignorance some of you possess. You are preaching hatred towards individuals you have never met nor walked in their shoes! I’ve felt like a boy/man all my teenage years. Yes, I have attempted suicide because of opinions like you all possess.
Obviously none of you like to be insulted or being called dumb doesn’t it?
So why do you do it? Why are you judging something you have no idea about.
Oh yes, and I’m also vegan!!!! Here’s some more propaganda for you! I think you are wrong if like cats and dogs whilst chewing on a beef roast or feeding your kids sausages whilst watching peppa pig!
There you have it! Go on slay me!!!!

[BettyDuMonde]

Peppa Pig is shit.

[Katvonfelttipeyebrows]

Oh the drama!

[EatCashews]

I'm confused, Coco, because many posters on here are very concerned about gender non-conforming children and children who have mental health issues. But many of us are also parents who realise that children can't always be affirmed in everything they want to do but need loving and understanding guidance. Why don't you give us a chance instead of telling us how dumb we are?

Vegans do much good for the planet. Please continue.

And since I don't know you I think the 'dumbsnetters' epithet says more about you than about anybody else, so I'm not even offended. Peace!

[OldCrone]

CocoWild
Don't be so quick to say that people have no idea about this. Many women here felt uncomfortable about becoming women in their teens. It's not that unusual, and it must be much worse for teenage girls now.

You say that you have always 'felt like a boy/man'. If you're female, this is simply not possible. Being a man or a woman is not a feeling, it's related to biology (adult human male/female). Many of us here are very gender non-conforming, though, and have been fighting for decades against being treated as second-class citizens just for being female. I believe in the right of everyone to dress as they wish and behave as they wish (as long as it doesn't harm others).

[EatCashews]

And it's much better than 'scumsnetters' which we also had a while back, so cheers!

[SisterWendyBuckett]

Oh CocoWild

Please take some time to read some of the very relevant threads in this part of MN. Come to them with a more open mind and maybe you'll let yourself see things from a different perspective.

Many of us have trans family and friends - a lot of whom are young. And exactly the audience that Fox and Owl
are playing to.

We feel desperately concerned for their mental and physical health and want to do everything we can to help them resolve their difficulties without closing off their future permanently.

[LangCleg]

I don't respond well to emotional blackmail.

Deary fucking me. It's not even subtle.

[ComputerSaysMo]

They need us to be “cishet” so they have something to define themselves against. It’s sad, really - what will they do when they realise how much of their opposition isn’t right wing, cis or het?