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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

We see you, left-wing men

67 replies

53rdWay · 08/06/2018 19:17

I’m pretty far to the left, politically. And will be staying that way no matter what men on the left do, because my political philosophy isn’t dependent on them.

I know there’s a looooong history of feminists getting fed up with the sexism of left-wing blokes and walking out to form their own movement, all the way back to the 19th century. But for a good few years there I was kidding myself that it’s different these days. These men call themselves feminists, they certainly aren’t old-fashioned sexists any more, blah blah blah.

(I did start questioning things around the Julian Assange rape accusations when so many ‘feminist’ men were spitting foam-flecked rage about how it was all so obviously lies, but even this didn’t wake me up.)

So I’d like to thank gender identity ideology, and all those left-wing men who are either mysteriously silent or actively putting the boot into feminists. This ideology made me see that not only are these men not on our side any more, but they never really were in the first place. They don’t think we’re oppressed as a class at all. It’s been a bit shit to realise this but I’m glad I finally did.

We see you, left-wing men
We see you, left-wing men
OP posts:
Lifesavingorange · 08/06/2018 19:24

I agree. I’ve found it really shocking, the realisation that these men are no friends to women. They don’t wear their misogyny as openly as right wing men but it’s just as deep-rooted.

MrsTerryPratchett · 08/06/2018 19:26

It is a constant battle with yourself, privilege. And unless you're willing to put in the work, you will retain prejudice. For example I read Racebaitr and similar, even though they frequently piss me off. Because I need to stretch my mind, look at my own internal stuff and work out where my prejudice shows up. I was raised in the UK so I know it's there. Plenty of racism knocking around so some must have rubbed off.

Almost always, as far as I can tell, left wing men are in it for the cookies and haven't done the work. They like to say 'feminist' things so everyone loves them and they get paid then when the chips are down, they are just thinly veiled misogynists. See; Louis CK, Jason Bateman, Joss Whedon...

FissionChips · 08/06/2018 19:32

I’m sure there is a quote by Dworkin (maybe someone else) that says “right wing men want women to be private property, left wing men want women to be public property” .
Kind of sums up how they see us.

Original poster
53rdWay · 08/06/2018 19:36

ugh yes, Joss Whedon.

OP posts:
MsMcWoodle · 08/06/2018 19:46

Totally agree op. Always thought this, but now I know for sure.
The point about 'obsessed with genitals' is really important to remember. Yes - we do care about who's got what genitals, because we get raped.

Original poster
53rdWay · 08/06/2018 19:56

Another excellent point made in that Twitter thread.

We see you, left-wing men
OP posts:
smithsinarazz · 08/06/2018 20:16

Well, it's a bloody gift, isn't it, TWAW? For dudebros that like to show off their right-on credentials. All their lives they've felt left out about not being in any Protected category. Even when they wear a T-shirt saying "this is what a feminist looks like" they don't get so much as a round of applause.
But now - hey presto! At one stroke, they can congratulate themselves on how sensitive and compassionate they are, while simultaneously indulging their underlying desire to threaten women who don't agree with them! Oh - but of course, they aren't being misogynistic, because TWAW and they agree with TWs.
Sorry to sound so angry. But, you know, when you've been told that someone who wants to beat the shit out of you lives in the same city as you and probably has acquaintances in common, you're liable to take it personally.

HmmWellYesNoBut · 08/06/2018 20:38

I have had an overhaul OP. I have gone off left-wing men, they are putting the boot in. They seem to think any man can do whatever he likes to any woman.

It's religious, centrist and right-wing men who have helped us. I guess it is to do with them viewing the women in their family as their property and them not wanting random men around them.

Pratchet · 08/06/2018 20:45

I think the added hypocrisy makes it worse than right wing sexism. I'm surrounded by men at work who are smugly hypocritical misogynists. And they think they're progressive.

ElenOfTheWays · 08/06/2018 21:11

I've always thought this sums it up nicely

We see you, left-wing men
MsMcWoodle · 08/06/2018 21:42

My God Elen - that is superb! Where is it from?

ElenOfTheWays · 08/06/2018 22:02

First saw it on Fb. Says it all really. Grin

nauticant · 08/06/2018 22:26

That image sums it up so well.

As time goes on I'm finding this stuff from lefty dudebros to be utterly repellent.

It's a shit choice but I'd rather deal with people who would hit me in the face than those who would stab me in the back.

changeypants · 08/06/2018 22:31

the hypocrisy deffo makes it worse.

the genitals thing is so annoying. i think a t-shirt with "hell fucking yes i am concerned with what is in your pants" might help.

SeaWitchly · 09/06/2018 06:06

This makes me think of Little Owen Jones and Dr Adrian Harrop.
Chief Twitter lefty woke brosocialist 'feminists' who actually cannot stand uppity women/feminists who don't tow the line regarding TAW Angry

InfiniteSheldon · 09/06/2018 06:29

They don’t wear their misogyny as openly as right wing men but it’s just as deep-rooted

I think left wing men are misogynistic but right wing men are sexist (namalt blah blah blah). Right wing men accept strong women but generally expect women to be weaker but not inferior just different. Left wing men loathe strong women and believe women to be inferior.
I think this is why we've had two Conservation female leaders and won't ever have a Labour one (or not a straight one, Lefty dude bros seem a bit better at tolerating gay women).
With self id right wing men see straight away that it's a bad idea for women as they inherently believe in providing, protecting and caring for women. Left wing men are secretly crowing with delight that we've got our comeuppance.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 09/06/2018 06:57

Ime the difference appears when you make the mistake of calling out their sexism.
By and large the right wing men won't do anything about it, but the left wing men will punish you for daring to imply they could possibly be sexist, don't you know they ARE feminists, etc etc.

QuoadUltra · 09/06/2018 07:06

The ‘further left’ have never, ever been female-centric.

Look at all the job losses in retail - a million will go this year. More than the loss of all UK mining jobs ever. Do you see them protesting? No, it’s women work. You can bet it would be different if it was steel worker jobs.

The Tories are more about individualism. That’s why they aren’t phased by talented women. It doesn’t mean they aren’t sexist, just that they don’t have such a blanket view.

QuoadUltra · 09/06/2018 07:07

*fazed not phased, obviously

TheDishRanAwayWithTheSpoon · 09/06/2018 07:21

Left-wing men I find are normally left wing because they want to be seen as a 'nice-guy' and like the praise that essentially comes from being politically correct.

A traditional right wing man is often just dismissed as a bigot etc, but a left wing man has all the power because his opinions are seen as 'fact' and 'right' there is constant ego-boosting. It is absolutely nothing to do with what he really perceives to be right and all to do with power.

The whole trans thing is perfect for these men, they can maintain the praise and power of being the clever, politically correct man and indulge in their mysogony.

They dislike outspoken women who challenge their opinion because they are used to everyone just bowing down to them, their opinions can't be challenged because then they might not be the most right, and the nicest guy.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 09/06/2018 07:22

'their opinions can't be challenged because then they might not be the most right, and the nicest guy.'

Yes, this EXACTLY.

Bowlofbabelfish · 09/06/2018 07:31

I also consider myself left politically, but I have to say, this issue has been an eye opener for me.

I think left wing men identify with being right. On everything. So to criticise them for their attitudes isn’t criticising their opinion it’s criticising THEM.

The right seem to have more of an opinion based opinion, as opposed to the above (terribly put I’m sorry, I’m sure there’s a more eloquent way of saying this.) you criticise their opinion, not their very being.

I think this ties into the criticisms each side throw at each other. The left are very into the evil tories trope - the person themselves is evil and this everything they do is wrong. The right seem to criticise the lefties more for ‘you are being ridiculous on this issue.’

Original poster
53rdWay · 09/06/2018 07:45

I think left wing men identify with being right. On everything.

Yes!

I’m not going to let right-wing men off the hook on this; the left has done more for women’s rights than they ever have. But I am tired of left-wing men acting like this redeems them and also makes them experts on feminism. “We gave you some scraps and didn’t get in the way too much while you worked for the rest, now shut up and let us do the REAL work.”

Yes too to the glamourisation of traditionally male working-class jobs, and ignoring the jobs women are doing.

OP posts:
Pluckedpencil · 09/06/2018 07:48

Christ, that thing about retail workers need occurred to me.

InfiniteSheldon · 09/06/2018 07:48

It's been a massive eye opener for me. That comparison of retail and mining is shocking. The truth is we need politically to join as women. Both Right Left and Liberal are showing that their make dominance will happily throw women under a bus and The Women's party seem sadly to be far left handmaidens.