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Ditch The Foundation, Embrace Some Fantastic Skincare Instead!(1000 Posts)
For those who are taking a peek and wondering whether thread 1,2, 3, and 4 are worth reading, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients for our particular needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Deviations on this thread are mostly my fault.
If you're in need of some advice coming to grips with your skincare routine please don't hesitate to ask, we don't bite, only occasionally sting with a bit of Biologique Recherche P50 now and then . Just make sure to state clearly what your concerns and needs are in as much detail as possible, skincare is highly individual and a random recommendation for a 'good' product will be completely different from one person to the next.
Make sure you've read the earlier threads (or at the very least the first one) so we're not being asked to answer to previously raised questions. It takes a lot of time and effort to answer these queries and often the answers can be found in previous threads, but if you still have questions relating specifically to you, use the following form to make life easier on us. We generally answer one or to two people a day on a first come first served basis. Not everyone will have answers and sometimes we can't answer you at all. We're only a bunch of amateurs that can respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.
*Approx age (range):*
*Primary skin concern:*
*Makeup :* eg. no/light coverage/medium coverage/heavy coverage
*Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results:*
*Things that are really working well for me now:*
*Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:*
*What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item:* eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits.
*I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]:*
Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly either.
Seeing as you are at the beginning of a new thread, I'm going to pop in. <waves> Under a former user name I was on the fantastic faces threads the other year and since then, and all the fab advice you and other gurus-of-mine gave then I've not much changed my routine! I dabbled in Korean stuff, but got lost in the mahoosive threads.
I am however, always ready to pick up new hints and try new products, so here I'll park my butt for a while if that's OK!
Skin type: dry/dehydrated at times.
Routine AM- <cough> not what it should be. Moisturise and makeup on the hoof usually
Routine PM: double cleanse alternating between (at the moment) Superdrug Vit E, Body Shop Chamomile Butter, Liz Earle original C/P, Liz Earle Lavender evening C/P (love them all) Tone with Olay Anti Wrinkle (I was the one on the Amazing Faces who recommended that one as a cheap as chips alternative to Nip/Fab/Pixi etc. Serums- alternate between N7 Lift and Luminate (love it) Nip/Fab Dragon's Blood (jury's out) and various other bits and bobs of samples I've picked up. Moisturise L'Occitane Divine. 3rd pot. Astral for neck. When very dry in especially harsh weather, Astral instead of L'Occitane. Also own various oils, which sometimes splosh on top.
MakeUp- Aim for my skin-but better really. Foundation (alternate between Les Beiges/Perfection Lumiere at the mo, but always with a top coat of Maybelline Dream Silk Liquid which IMO is the best!)
Occasional Treatments - home done GA peels, about to start week 1 again.
Things I've tried with disastrous results- nothing disastrous though I found Nip/Fab pads a bit meh, ditto Liquid Gold (though I tried it way back when and have seen its range has moved on)
Things working well- all of the above. Prior to September I was having post menopausal outbreaks of rosacea which I had never had in my life before I was 48. I started on the above routine in September- everything except the Liz Earle which I bought at Christmas and my skin is smooth and not one single flare up. Have no idea which ingredient is doing the trick.
Dietary concerns: Nope
Willing to spend: too much.
I specifically want: nothing much tbh, bit more plumping/blurring of wrinkles round eyes I suppose. I'm just happy to sit back and read (and then run off to buy the same!)
(having re-read your other threads I am interested in a Vit C treatment as I've never used that)
Also please bear in mind that we are all amateur skincare
obsessed lovers and our knowledge is the fruit of our own experience and interests. Every person and their skin are different, so don't blindly rush to but and try what works for other people. Do your own little research and try to get a sample or a decant and test it on yourself first.
And lastly don't try new stuff all at once, otherwise you will never know what works or what irritates.
I'll be back later with my promised INCI nerd quiz
The DHC UK site has the cleansing oil on offer for new customers, plus some free samples for £10.75 (full size and free shipping) which is a really good price for anyone who has it on their wishlist or wants a backup. Offer here, valid until Tuesday, 28 February 2017.
40% off almost everything at the Body Shop, enter the code 14664 on the website or show the code in store for 40% off most items, include sale stuff, until the 31st of January. So the cleansing balms should be down to 6 quid now? And their AB like SPF, the Skin defence Multi-Protection Essence comes in a lot more affordable now too. I'm also liking the look of the precision eye massager, as I'm already a big fan of
their penis shaped facial massager.
$5.00 USD off your next iHerb order and they've lowered their shipping prices. No mention of minimum order. Should point out I get some sort of reward credit if you buy through the link, never received something like that before through my email confused, and it may well be that MN's affiliate programs override it. I'm guessing if you just use the capital codes when checking out that should give you the discount too. Will happily click on other people's referral links in some sort of incestuous discount referral frenzy grin.
20% off Paula's Choice this weekend on Skincity.com
30% off over a €30/£30 spend at Kiko this weekend - offer automatically calculated at checkout.
TO READ, TO WATCH, ETC.
Pollution and skincare are definitely becoming a 'thing' or possibly a 'marketing thing'. This Skincare Tool From Dermalogica And BreezoMeter Shares Local Air Pollution Levels In Real-Time and London broke its annual air pollution limit just five days into 2017 - three days faster than last year. This week, as pollution levels in some areas of the capital topped those measured in Beijing.
An in-depth review of the Drunk Elephant line and why Sephora can't seem to keep it in stock
I want some, who's up for a trip to NYC?.
Dr. Colbert to Launch New Skincare Line NYDG targeted at a younger audience, looks promising apart from the high prices.
An Interview with Beauty Pie founder Marcia Kilgore: 'I'm liberating women - we're finally taking the power back'
Study Reveals That Certain Lifestyle Choices Might Matter More Than Genes When it Comes to Exceptionally Youthful Looking Skin funded by Olay but in brief, daily sunscreen and a positive self-image appear to be more beneficial to well ageing skin and the sunbathers and perennially dry skinned come out for the worse. Also good genes (not the product, though Sunday Riley is being sued for their false claims) are overrated.
The importance of letting skincare be absorbed by your face rather than your pillow - all the more reason to get your routine out of the way well before bedtime.
What outrageously expensive skincare products are really worth their price tags?
For the sake of balance, Do exfoliating scrubs do your skin more harm than good? Some interesting observations about the concept of 'skin shaming' too. Which brings me to the rather humorous Modern tribes: the skintellectual which I initially didn't dare read in fear of recognising myself but Skinful's promise of laughter assured me it wasn't about me .
New Beauty Brains Podcasts: Are lotions with water bad for your skin? - I keep meaning to add more Beauty Podcasts to these things but I rarely get the time to catch up with them all but I have to say this is my favoured knowledge carryover vehicle of choice, when in conversation with several people contributing it's a lot harder to be on message and selling someone else's brand (like in a blog or vlog) so currently it feels 'the most honest'
in other words, it's ripe for some hostile takeovers from the industry. Related to that, I usually steer clear of Wayne Goss' clickbaity videos but this one makes for interesting watching on the emergence of filters in YouTube videos and the unrealistic expectation that puts on our perception of 'perfect' skin and makeup application.
BBC Radio 4 Woman's Hour: Nobel prize winner Dr Elizabeth Blackburn, co-author of The Telomere Effect, has discovered Telomeres, the 'shoelaces' or protective caps at the end of chromosomes which help to slow down the ageing process. She talks to Jane about how she believes her discovery could help you to live longer and look younger. You can skip to this quite easily and she continues talking more in depth on the podcast. Interesting to see confirmed the advocacy for a low-stress lifestyle (but not avoiding challenging stress which was new to me and quite a welcome discovery), consistent low-level exercise and balanced diets.
I basically just like hearing from Nobel scientists that I'm right
Speaking of diets, finally managed to catch up with the Horizon doc and its 'exposure' of clean eating. Felt a bit weak to me but the articles it's spawned elsewhere make for good reading, Bad fad – Ruby Tandoh on how clean eating turned toxic, The Pool had this Confession of a former clean eater which made for great reading but it was rather disappointing to then come across this feature How to put plants at the centre of your plate that seems to advocate a very unvaried diet of only vegetables. 'Tossing in a bit of tofu' here and there feels wholly inadequate to me,
complex carbs anyone?
On the more balanced front, Heidi Swanson from 101 cookbooks has her own YouTube Channel now, for the beauty inspired there's this Glow-promoting, Luminizing Breakfast Beauty Bowl and I've been meaning to make this Vibrant Vegan Double Broccoli Buddha Bowl possibly with some of these Easy Pickled Turmeric Eggs.
Happy Sunday everyone!
Busy Sunday for me then reading all the above! Waiting (impatiently) on a ball of wool to arrive before continuing with my jumper,so this will fill the void and fill it with great knowledge!
Sorry, missed this on the last thread "Gwenhwyfar, you missed out the last (and probably most important) question, what were you looking for help with?
Welcome VintagePerfumista! To your knowledge, is the Olay toner still available in stores? Online it seems to have been discontinued, only available through external Amazon sellers at inflated prices. I think the Vit C 23% is definitely worth a go for the price, keeping in mind the endless textural complaints about it. You get used to it, I promise. As always I'll remind that an SPF wouldn't go amiss in your routine.
Glad to read about your DIY spray bo. That was just what was left of you clay wash, right? I'm going to try it as well but add some macadamia oil which is great for my hair.
Vinegar is actually very good for preserving hair colour - if I'm colouring at home and I remember I add a tiny bit of ACV to the colour before applying. Same as with clothes - you can add some vinegar to your wash upon first washing new dark clothes. It's also good for your washing machine, obvs.
Have you made up your mind about the Lumea?
Yes, half the herbal water was used for the mask the other half for the rinse/spray. They did recommend to do a 1/4cup of chamomile instead of rosemary for blonde hair. The recipe was for 500ml of boiled water then 1tbsp per 250ml of ACV for the rinse, so if not making the mask it would be 2tbsp. (Boil, steep herbs and 2tbsp nettle, leave to cool then strain then add ACV).
I remember the old days, when you got black jeans to preserve their colour you had to soak them in vinegar before wearing and washing them to avoid ending up with blackened legs and fading colour.
I took the plunge with the SC2009 . I actually went in store to have a look and while it was a bit heavier it felt nicer in the hands to use. The 1997 did have a good length of cord so I was somewhat torn but I do have the propensity to get tangled up in cords and plugs are always at a premium here somehow so that made the most sense to me.
botemp - I would like to have smoother skin on my face and minimise wrinkles. On my body, the KP is a problem though as I said the Palmers is the best I've found, better than expensive brands like Aveeno, Eucerin, etc.
I should add that I prefer to buy in shops over online. I don't have my own postbox and am never there when the postman comes so ordering is a problem.
I like the Nip and Fab Glycolic pads... I prefer the night time ones (my skin can tolerate it.) But they're not good for travelling with.
Can anyone recommend a bottled liquid equivalent?
I'm a beauty therapist and I think that treatments like microdermabrasion are very useful - they clear up any conditions but also make your skin more receptive to products.
I'm a fan of Elemis - particularly the marine cream in this cold weather. It's expensive but a little goes a long way and I would really recommend the gift sets as a cheaper way of getting a lot for your money.
Enid how did you use the colorphlex? Mine came on Friday and instructions are to use whilst coloring hair but am I right in thinking you just added it to your conditioner?
Fizzy I just mixed the first step stuff in with my ordinary conditioner. Stirred it together in a bowl and put in on. Put a plastic cap over the top and a loose towel, then left it for 20 minutes ish. I did use the 2nd step conditioner but only left it for about 5 minutes not the 10 they recommended. Hope that helps
Thanks bo all those links look really interesting! I have finally picked up my samples of dhc oil from the post office depot so if I get on with them I will def order a big one at that bargain price. My skin feels tight after washing off the LRP dermo cleanser so maybe an oil would be better?
Should I persevere with the nip fab extremes? Or switch to the normal version (I have them too) Or something else? I hadn't thought of the acid as causing the dryness as I've only used it a few times but that makes much more sense! Is it normal to feel this dry after starting acids?
Can you recommend something really hydrating please? Either a mask or night treatment..
Thank you for the Sunday Supplement bo. Reading now. That Modern Tribes is brutal.
Checking in to wave and book my spot.
Nothing useful to add/report.
Is this lovely stuff worth the price think I read you ladies mention it here
Looks very tempting
Hello may I ask for some advice or suggestions please
Skin type:** Combination. I have the odd spot on my chin cropping up. *
Approx age (range):* 39
Primary skin concern: Dehydration, large pores and annoying spots. * Want to increase anti-aging. I jumped on the CH routine 2 years ago. It worked so well for me and I had no spots for ages, my skin looked great. I was living abroad at the time and moved back to the UK in May, since then my skin looks rubbish - congested, dry, spots on chin. I've been a bit rubbish at taking my makeup off at night which I was religious with, so don't think that's helped. I wonder if it's the change in water
AM : Cleanse and remove with flannel. Acid tone - Pixie Glow or Clarins. Serum - I'm trying Niod mist, Copper serum and hydraulic complex. Haven't noticed much difference. Moisturise using whatever I have to hand. I need a better one that deals with hydration *
PM :* Double cleanse & flannel. Acid pads - first aid, Thomas Roth. Serum - Estée Lauder - I'm not that impressed. Nivea moisturiser - too perfumed, need a new one
Makeup : medium coverage - primer, Dior foundation and concealer (under eye circles)
Occasional treatments: Alpha H, Retinol. Microdermabrasion monthly - that helps with congestion
Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results: Cheap products
Things that are really working well for me now: Microdermabrasion- wondering about acid peel? *
Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant:* No
What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item: eg. >£10, £10-20, £20-50, £50-100, no limits. £20-50
I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]: More hardcore products like Retinol
Thanks in advance
Gwenhwhyfar, it’s a little difficult for me to rec products available in stores only as I’m not UK based. I’m assuming you can do a parcel pick up type thing, I know ASOS provides this and although their stock fluctuates they do seem to have a lot of The Ordinary range available most of the time. Below is a repeat of a previous advice, by the sound of it I’d say your normal to dry with dehydration.
Skincare 101 or How to Get Started with a Proper Routine When You Haven’t Got One or Something Vaguely Resembling It
Where to start
The basics: Keep your face away from the shower water, it's too hot. Embrace the sink as your face’s new best friend.. Tepid water, clean flannel every day. Wash hands before starting routine. Acids need to be introduced slowly, some purging may occur but should not continue, nor should continued irritation with any product. Generally introduce products slowly (cleansers are exempt from this), 2 weeks apart.
* In terms of informing yourself, you’re probably well on your way. The most important thing is to start mapping out the time you’ll take for yourself on the daily. The routine which will allow you to see more of a difference is in the PM and this is often at the risk of being hurried or forgotten. It really is a point of it becoming a habit which it’ll become soon enough with continued use but some tricks to actually make it happen are the following:
-Tying it to dental care: cleanse first, then brush teeth etc. (assuming you’re at least dedicated to this 2x a day), then finish up routine.
-Doing your routine as soon as you get home from work/after dinner/with DC around bedtime or equivalent to have it done early in the evening around a set moment and not needing to worry about it or feel too tired for right before bed.
-Moving everything but your cleansing routine out of the bathroom so you can’t be harassed out of there during the morning rush, take time in a more peaceful setting or whilst doing other things, etc.
* In terms of tools it’s probably worth getting a set of dedicated flannels to be used once a day (I prefer the plusher top of the line ones from Primark, the ones from Ikea 10 for a pound or thereabouts are a bit rougher and not suitable for sensitive skin but may be fine for others, some may prefer muslin, etc.)
* Product wise you’ll want to find an SPF you’ll enjoy wearing on a daily basis first and not an SPF in another product such as moisturiser or makeup. These are rarely broad spectrum and often don’t provide the promised coverage. You’ll want an SPF30+ in winter and SPF50 come summer time. If you can find one you like that is sweatproof great, otherwise, you’ll most likely need a separate one when spending long periods of time outdoors and/or doing exercise.
* If you can only manage the bare minimum on the daily then it should be cleansing + SPF in the AM and cleansing + moisturiser or facial oil in the PM. In saying that it’s also a good strategy to keep your routine small to start to keep it both manageable and achievable but also to avoid the inability to track possible incompatible products.
* Relegate products that aren’t working for you now to body care.
Order of things to buy and try
Phase 1: SPF + Oil Cleanser (for PM) + Cream or other gentle cleanser (for AM and possibly double cleanse if necessary/wear makeup)
Phase 2: Moisturiser and possibly a Hyaluronic Acid based serum for hydration
Phase 2.1: If at this point you still feel like you could use a bit of extra moisturiser a facial oil at night will help out.
Phase 3: Start researching Active Ingredients that will address your specific needs/help address your skincare goals eg. Exfoliating Acids, Vitamin C, Retinol, Niacinamide, etc.
Gentle (cream) cleanser - LRP Toleriane Dermo Cleanser (should be available from Boots otherwise you should be able to order and pick up I believe)
If you like and are enjoying your current serum and moisturiser stick with it. Further down the line I’d look at TO Buffet, possibly the TO Vit C 23% if that appeals and provided you have no issues with the ingredients in Olay they do make some decent low budget moisturisers that are easily available. I’d look at the Regenerist 3 - Point System (though quite high priced for what it is) or the 7 Total Effects line, favouring the non-SPF and fragrance free versions.
SPF - LRP Anthelios Fluid SPF50 (Boots)
Oil based cleanser - Superdrug Vit E Hot Cloth Cleanser or Body Shop Chamomile Cleansing Butter
Gentle (cream) cleanser - LRP Toleriane Dermo Cleanser
Acid toner - limited choice so it’ll have to be Nip & Fab (provided you handle glycolic, fragrance and the alcohol well), if I’d have to pick one it would be the Extreme Glycolic 5% ones which should only be used 2-3x a week and definitely start with once a week for a good week or two. When done on the face use the remnants of the pads on the KP areas.
Serum as above, consider TO Retinoid 2% and possibly TO Niacinamide 10%
Moisturiser and/or facial oil - as above
WRT to the Boots No7 serum (assuming the protect & perfect advanced serum): The reason we don’t talk about it much on here is that it is a Matrixyl3000 powered serum. It’s quite a cheap ingredient (and while there are other active ingredients like Vit C and a form of Retinol in it, they are nowhere near enough available in concentrations to show any significant effect) and TO has a Matrixyl serum for about half the price with a better concentration of active ingredients in a more cosmetically elegant formulation. I’m having a bit of difficulty sourcing a current INCI for it but from the ones I have seen the Matrixyl3000 comes in all the way last on the INCI whilst it’s the 4th ingredient (and one of many matrixyl peptides, and they do work better together) in TO Matrixyl (also prominently present in TO Buffet).
Skin type: dehydrated/sensitive/can get acne around chin and jaw
Approx age (range): almost 40 😩
Primary skin concern: red veins appearing on apples of cheeks. Acne scarring around chin and mouth*
AM : Oskia renaissance cleanser or Alpha H balancing cleanser, pixi tonic, May lindstrom oil or Kypris 1000 roses or Oskia restoration oil. Elemis pcmc extra rich
PM : 1st cleanse, Elemis balm or EH balm or Elemis Omega cleansing oil. 2nd cleanse Oskia perfecting cleanser or Omorovicza thermal cleansing. Pixi tonic, Sunday Riley Luna & good genes, or Alpha H sleep power peel. Every other night double cleanse then Alpha H liquid gold
Makeup : no/light coverage most days
Things I've tried in the past with disastrous results: the Ordinary, clarins cleansers and moisturises*
Things that are really working well for me now:* love Oskia and Alpha H
Any dietary/health concerns/pregnant: no *
What I'm willing to spend on a single skincare item:* less than a new car *
I specifically [want help with/am looking for a product to/am curious about trying]* another acid, something to really re texturise the scarring around my mouth and something to calm the cystic acne I get now and again (think that's sugar related though) not much wanted!
I have a perpetual fear of recognising myself in those Modern Tribes, Enid. Surely that'll be a tribe too . For some more entertainment: Deliciously Ella with Friends by Ella Mills – digested read.
JustGettingStarted, wouldn't it be easier to find some form of travel container for them, either a slimline jar or a ziplock type bag? I'm not a big proponent of mixing the same type of acids and it's hard to say if you like A you'll like B. AHAs worth looking at are the PC 10% (though this is to be used 1x a week) and the BR P50 which would be similar and available in travel sizes but both are decidedly stronger. Pixi glow tonic is similar in strength but lacks the diversity of the other ingredients and people are very hit and miss with it.
Elixiam, I'm not sure. When people have issues on here the culprit has far too often been the N+F pads. I also think the issue with glycolic in general as well as that people respond to it well initially but as they continue to use it they become more sensitive to it (though this is over months or years). Acids shouldn't be drying you out but N+F use alcohol as their ingredient penetrating enhancer and this can cause dryness in some (especially if you're dehydrated or dry).
As for hydrating, I tried the Korean 7 skin technique yesterday as my skin was a little bit under the weather after spending last weekend in bed mostly with a minimal routine only to then be exposed to very cold weather. Basically you take a hydrating toner and apply a coin sized worth amount and pat it on your face gentle and then repeat 7 times. After the 4th time I started intermittently spraying some LRP thermal water in between to aid absorption and it yielded a really good result that's maintained well. Any hydrating toner/serum with a bit of stickiness whilst still being liquid will do, I used a Japanese HA lotion.
Skinful, I think there's two trialling it on here. No verdict for the long term on it yet but initial feedback was positive.
ChiChiRaRa, water can definitely be an influence. There's a lot of calcium in my water supply and it's a hard type so I always follow up cleansing with a thermal water to mitigate the effect of that.
I'd be incorporating some sort HA serum in the AM. Assuming your EL serum is the ANR I'd consider using that in the AM too. The Face Theory moisturisers are well liked on here and I often rec the no frills LRP Toleriane Fluide (though becoming harder to source as of recent).
I think it's worth looking into a BHA (Paula's Choice Skin Perfecting 2% BHA Liquid Exfoliant, get a travel size version first, it may be that one of the other formulas suits you better). You're throwing a LOT at your face in the form of glycolic and microdermabrasion but both those work on a surface level and won't tackle the clogging like a BHA will. Acid peels would be more of the same to what you're doing, it'll temporarily make a difference but not tackle it long term and invite the clogging party back in. Start with the BHA 2-3x a week and work it up to every (other) day and probably adjust the amount of AHA you're using (so cut back on Alpha-H and Clarins). And you need an SPF, especially with all the exfoliating you're doing and not something in makeup or moisturiser, a year round standalone product. SPF30 in winter and SPF50 in spring/summer.
For Retinol the TO Retinoid 2% is worth trying, other pricier options include the Pestle & Mortar Retinoil, La Roche Posay Redermic R, Skinceuticals Retinol (start with the lower strength), Verso Super Facial Serum. I do think it's a beneficial addition especially to your skin type and age but also considering that with the amount of acid exfoliating you're currently doing you're not really yielding the results you'd want, BHA and Retinol are more compatible partners for your skin concerns.
LazySusan11, what were your issues with The Ordinary? What products did you use? Have you seen a GP to rule out rosacea?
I think I may have missed out some responses from the end of the last thread, remind me if I overlooked you. I think JDSTER was asking about a starter Retinol, I'd try TO one just on the basis of the price point and it's good for use on the body if it doesn't work out for you for whatever reason, then try LRP Redermic R if it doesn't work out for you.
bo and Pupsie Is the p50w for congestion? So I can use it just on my congested areas initially? Or is it more for texture like visible pores? Don't want to use it all over yet as my skin is finally clear of visible spots and almost clear of marks left by spots (thanks to cicaplast. Know I keep going on about it but I'm amazed!). Grateful for any advice.
No rosacea Bo, as far as The Ordinary products go I tried, buffet, vit c, azeliac acid, nicinamide & zinc, hyaluronic acid. The buffet and vit c broke me out and the others just did nothing for my skin. Zelens pads broke me out as did nip and fab however I'm fine with pixi tonic and pixi 10%
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