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‘Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown’ - as it should be! Trump thread continued.

(987 Posts)
TheClaws Tue 05-Dec-17 05:30:26

From Shakespeake’s Henry IV, Act 3 Scene 1.

Old thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3094156-All-we-want-for-Christmas-is-an-IMPEACHMENT-Trump-cont

TheClaws Tue 05-Dec-17 05:38:20

(The Hill) Palestinian envoy says that the US recognising Jerusalem as the Israeli capital would snuff out the peace process.

thehill.com/homenews/administration/363229-palestinian-envoy-us-recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-would

PainInTheEar Tue 05-Dec-17 07:01:20

Thanks claws!

Rachel Maddow MSNBC
@maddow
Expecting House Intel to release transcript of Erik Prince’s testimony tomorrow/Tuesday.

PainInTheEar Tue 05-Dec-17 07:05:34

ICIJ
@ICIJorg
A thread worth reading by our reporter @sashachavkin on Wilbur Ross in the #ParadisePapers.

mobile.twitter.com/sashachavkin/status/937769895810519042

badbadhusky Tue 05-Dec-17 07:06:14

The old thread barely made it into December, let alone all the way to Christmas. I can only hope the same goes for Trump’s presidency, but I suspect that’s wishful thinking. Well, lets hope the world makes it as far as 2018. I’m going to feel very foolish for buying our summer 2018 holiday flights outright last month if Trump and Kim decide to give us a nuclear winter for Christmas.

PainInTheEar Tue 05-Dec-17 07:07:39

Amy Fiscus
@amyfiscus
NEW: Those KT McFarland emails show she contradicted her congressional testimony about what she knew about Russia contacts

mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/04/us/politics/kt-mcfarland-flynn-russia-emails-congressional-testimony.html?referer=https://t.co/s6U1PxyUj7?amp=1

Separately, see photo

OuaisMaisBon Tue 05-Dec-17 07:15:33

Dan Rather, again, is spot on. So much for Trump's vaunted "drain the swamp" - Grassley's words prove how much more #45 and his pals have muddied it.

"When the time comes, and I hope it comes soon, to bury this era of moral rot and the defiling of our communal, social, and democratic norms, the perfect epitaph for the gravestone of this age of unreason should be Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley's already infamous quote:

"I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing... as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”

Grassley's vision of America, quite frankly, is one I do not recognize. I thought the heart of this great nation was not limited to the ranks of the plutocrats who are whisked through life in chauffeured cars and private jets, whose often inherited riches are passed along to children, many of whom no sacrifice or service is asked. I do not begrudge wealth, but it must come with a humility that money never is completely free of luck. And more importantly, wealth can never be a measure of worth.

I have seen the waitress working the overnight shift at a diner to give her children a better life, and yes maybe even take them to a movie once in awhile - and in her, I see America.

I have seen the public school teachers spending extra time with students who need help and who get no extra pay for their efforts, and in them I see America.

I have seen parents sitting around kitchen tables with stacks of pressing bills and wondering if they can afford a Christmas gift for their children, and in them I see America.

I have seen the young diplomat in a distant foreign capital and the young soldier in a battlefield foxhole, and in them I see America.

I have seen the brilliant graduates of the best law schools who forgo the riches of a corporate firm for the often thankless slog of a district attorney or public defender's office, and in them I see America.

I have seen the librarian reshelving books, the firefighter, police officer, and paramedic in service in trying times, the social worker helping the elderly and infirm, the youth sports coaches, the PTA presidents, and in them I see America.

I have seen the immigrants working a cash register at a gas station or trimming hedges in the frost of an early fall morning, or driving a cab through rush hour traffic to make better lives for their families, and in them I see America.

I have seen the science students unlocking the mysteries of life late at night in university laboratories for little or no pay, and in them I see America.

I have seen the families struggling with a cancer diagnosis, or dementia in a parent or spouse. Amid the struggles of mortality and dignity, in them I see America.

These, and so many other Americans, have every bit as much claim to a government working for them as the lobbyists and moneyed classes. And yet, the power brokers in Washington today seem deaf to these voices. It is a national disgrace of historic proportions.

And finally, what is so wrong about those who must worry about the cost of a drink with friends, or a date, or a little entertainment, to rephrase Senator Grassley's demeaning phrasings? Those who can't afford not to worry about food, shelter, healthcare, education for their children, and all the other costs of modern life, surely they too deserve to be able to spend some of their “darn pennies” on the simple joys of life.

Never mind that almost every reputable economist has called this tax bill a sham of handouts for the rich at the expense of the vast majority of Americans and the future economic health of this nation. Never mind that it is filled with loopholes written by lobbyists. Never mind that the wealthiest already speak with the loudest voices in Washington, and always have. Grassley’s comments open a window to the soul of the current national Republican Party and it it is not pretty. This is not a view of America that i think President Ronald Reagan let alone President Dwight Eisenhower or Teddy Roosevelt would have recognized. This is unadulterated cynicism and a version of top-down class warfare run amok."

OuaisMaisBon Tue 05-Dec-17 07:17:07

Ooops, and thank you for the new thread, TheClaws - it is so galling that #45 wouldn't understand the meaning of that quote even if he found it on a golf-course. Fake news, obvs.

PainInTheEar Tue 05-Dec-17 07:18:46

POLITICO
POLITICO
@politico
.@joshgerstein obtained jail records from George Papadopoulos' arrest. Here are the details from the night FBI agents greeted him at an airport.

George Papadopoulos' late night with the FBI

'Law enforcement likes to get somebody's attention as much as they can in a lawful way,' one of his lawyers said of the July arrest.

www.politico.com/story/2017/12/04/george-papadopoulos-arrest-fbi-277760

PainInTheEar Tue 05-Dec-17 07:23:01

ouais that really does go to the heart of the problem. It’s not a democracy anymore, it’s a kleptocracy

lettuceWrap Tue 05-Dec-17 07:28:49

Thanks Claws.

As is my daily habit since the trump presidency began, I’ve just woken, checked these threads and looked at his twitter account.
No tweets for 18hrs... It’s like waiting for old faithful to blow (bile in his case obviously) hmm

PainInTheEar Tue 05-Dec-17 07:37:56

From yesterday

Max Fisher
@Max_Fisher
The United States says missile defense keeps us safe.

It saved the day in Saudi Arabia, according to Trump and the Saudi govt. The enemy missile fired at Riyadh airport, they said, was shot down.

But none of that, we report today @nytimes, is true.

t.co/4LSTKVHBdV?amp=1

Today:

The Associated Press
@AP
BREAKING: United Arab Emirates says it has formed a new military and economic partnership with Saudi Arabia separate from the GCC.

Lweji Tue 05-Dec-17 07:46:13

Placemarking a thank you for the new thread.

BiglyBadgers Tue 05-Dec-17 07:47:01

I've just had a thought, it is early and I have a cold, so excuse me is a bit weird.

People often talk about how countries with socialist policies have slipped into communist dictatorships, we have seen the same with fascism of course, are we seeing the creation of a Capitalist Dictatorship here?

OuaisMaisBon Tue 05-Dec-17 07:56:28

Trump's Klepsi-Klepsi* Government. Has a ring to it, Pain.
BiglyBadgers - I'm afraid I am so simplistic that it seems to me that a Fascist dictatorship and a Capitalist dictatorship, in the current situation, are one and the same, horrifically.
Trump's Kleptocrat Government. Has a ring to it, Pain.

*My monolingual Greek FIL used to tell me the (Left-Wing) Greek Government of the time I first met him were: "klepsi-klepsi", to explain to me that they were thieves.

OuaisMaisBon Tue 05-Dec-17 07:57:06

Whoops, didn't proof-read before posting, sorry.

PainInTheEar Tue 05-Dec-17 07:59:05

Would that be different from kleptocracies because the ruling party is in the thrall of large corporations than particular individuals? An extreme form of capitalism that disregards citizens entirely but dances even more explicitly to the tune of big businesses and their owners.

Although in the end does it look that different to what’s going on in Russia, say, where things are done for the benefit of corporations but only because they directly boost the wealth of the individuals who own them?

Something to ponder this morning!

BiglyBadgers Tue 05-Dec-17 08:02:15

Well, yes it is simply a matter of semantics Ouais, after all any sort of dictatorship is by definition not socialism. Most seem to be named of the nature of the movement that turns into the dictatorship. So Russia and China claimed socialist policies, while Germany and Spain followed fascism. America is the beacon of capitalism. I find it interesting because as someone on the left I have often heard the argument that socialism leads to dictatorship, but capitalism doesn't. The current situation seems to suggest that this is no longer the case.

lionheart Tue 05-Dec-17 08:08:26

Thanks Claws for the thread and the Harry.

I was going to post this in honour of the old thread but the boar sailed. No sources, just rumour but it is advent so expectation is all ...

smile

Ed Krassenstein‏
@EdKrassen

A little birdie tells me that the 3 weeks leading up to Christmas will be EPIC for Robert Mueller and his Trump/Russia investigation. Expect to see more BIG NEWS in the weeks to come!

Roussette Tue 05-Dec-17 08:10:49

Thank you Claws for the thread, good title

And I love that piece by Dan Rather, doesn't that just sum it up.

lionheart Tue 05-Dec-17 08:12:20

*boat even. The boar is still in the White House.

badbadhusky Tue 05-Dec-17 08:14:05

I thought “boar” was a ‘right back at ya’ Shakespeare reference that I was too dull to get. grin

BiglyBadgers Tue 05-Dec-17 08:14:31

It was particularly the comments regarding how tax cuts should be given to wealthy people who invest because if you don't have money you are basically worthless scum. This seems to me a particularly capitalist view, that the wealthy deserve praise and support for no other reason than they are rich. That money should be seen as the sole measure of worth and policies built around the idea that money is entitled to breed more money no matter the cost to others.

China and Russia may now act in a very similar ways in practice, but they come from quite different ideologies.

As I said, just a thought for the day. blush

OuaisMaisBon Tue 05-Dec-17 08:18:43

I think "enlightened self-interest" ought to pertain, especially in a capitalist society. Clearly not possible in Trump's America.
BiglyBadgers - I'm sorry, I'm lost, I can't work out my understanding of the differences between Fascism and Capitalism. (My fault.)

cozietoesie Tue 05-Dec-17 08:18:56

Thanks, Claws. smile

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