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IndyRef 7

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ItsAllGoingToBeFine Mon 08-Sep-14 09:33:33

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ItsAllGoingToBeFine Mon 08-Sep-14 09:38:14

A thought: the WM govt has been criticised (fairly?) for not offering Scotland 'Devo Max'. At the last minute we are being offered something very close to Devo Max if there is a no vote.

We are not being offered even remotely DevoMax. We are being offered more tax raising powers which they can't agree on and probably won't materialise

If WM wanted DevoMax for Scotland they have had more than ample opportunity to deliver it, as opposed to promise it. If Scotland votes No they go back to being a small %age of the population unable to effect change in WM.

TeamScotland Mon 08-Sep-14 09:41:52

WM can't legally offer anything new within 28 days of the vote.

TeamScotland Mon 08-Sep-14 09:45:20

newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/9708-better-together-new-powers-claim-collapses-within-hours

Link

WildThong Mon 08-Sep-14 09:45:20

Thought we discussed yesterday that they weren't covered by the purdah?
So in that case, yes they can.

Celticlass2 Mon 08-Sep-14 09:45:55

The WM government are running scared. They will say anything to get a no vote. What makes you think they will follow through on their promise to offer Devo Max.? They wouldn't" put
DM on the table before, because there were sure they could bully the scots in to voting no.
It's only now that the likelihood of yes is a reality that they are offering DM.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Mon 08-Sep-14 09:46:03

Ah, but its not WM offering. Its the pro-union parties hmm

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29100372

WildThong Mon 08-Sep-14 09:47:34

It's not what I'm basing my 'no' vote anyway so makes no difference

Anyone listening to Radio 5 live? Another phone in about the referendum.
can't abide Nicky Clark

WildThong Mon 08-Sep-14 09:47:56

Campbell

Celticlass2 Mon 08-Sep-14 09:53:27

Ah it's all so it was all made up by the pro unionists. Who's have thoughtsmile

WildThong Mon 08-Sep-14 09:55:00

Aye, celtic politicians say anything to get your vote except Salmond and Sturgeon obv hmm

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Mon 08-Sep-14 09:57:23

Aye, celtic politicians say anything to get your vote except Salmond and Sturgeon obv

Yup. The crucial difference is that Scots can vote and change the make up of SG. Too many lies from the SNP and a different party could be voted in. Scots cannot change then ruling party in WM.

AnnieHoo Mon 08-Sep-14 09:59:29

Listening to 5 Live referendum phone in .... I despair.

chocoluvva Mon 08-Sep-14 10:00:43

Claims that the WM government/pro-Union parties can't be trusted to honour the promise of giving the devolved Scottish gov't much greater tax-raising powers are unfair. You might as well say that all governments are untrustworthy, in which case the case for independence can't rest on dissatisfaction with the current UK system.

The Scottish people are being heard in WM. The society hoped for by yes voters who plan to vote yes in in our grasp within the UK. The ref debate has started long overdue discussion about the WM system: unelected mps in the house of lords and regional representation were mentioned by AD this morning.

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Mon 08-Sep-14 10:01:01

Dipping my toe in here, I've tried avoiding this but got sucked in yesterday with the surge in yes support.

Believe or not, I'm still undecided.

DD is desperate for me to vote no, she's not impressed her English dad is voting yes.

Celticlass2 Mon 08-Sep-14 10:06:23

I really admire your optimism chocoluvva I do however think it is entirely misplaced.

grandtheftmanual Mon 08-Sep-14 10:07:00

Just heard Nicola Sturgeon's response to falling shares. Fucking unbelievable. The head in the sand attitude of a large percentage of yes voters is making me despair. I wake up every morning happy and positive, remember we have a referendum and immediately feel like crawling under the covers again.

StatisticallyChallenged Mon 08-Sep-14 10:10:41

Any particular issues you are concerned about tension?

chocoluvva Mon 08-Sep-14 10:11:41

Nicola Sturgeon has just said that the "only way to get the powers.....needed to protect the NHS... in Scotland from the Tory cuts" is to vote for independence. That's practically an admission that the yes campaign is relying on disaffection with the current government to get a yes vote to the question, "Should Scotland be an independent country". Not a positive reason to vote for independence.

Scotland will get significantly more financial independence and more revenue to spend on the public good within the UK. More control without the costs of setting up brand new Scottish agencies that would be needed if Scotland were to become independent and the continued economic benefits of being in UK.

LatinForTelly Mon 08-Sep-14 10:14:55

And the Scottish NHS is completely devolved isn't it, Chocoluvva?

So that's Nicola playing fast and loose with the truth?

chocoluvva Mon 08-Sep-14 10:15:16

celticlass the no campaign has been criticised for being 'negative'.

Now, those yes voters who feel under-represented are demonstrably being listened to by the three main parties in WM.

StatisticallyChallenged Mon 08-Sep-14 10:18:05

Honestly I despair sometimes. I know that for some the economics don't matter -fine. But stop lying to those they do matter for.

Celticlass2 Mon 08-Sep-14 10:18:07

Chocca All of this is just your opinion. Being convinced you are right doesn't make it a fact. Just as what i think will happen is opinion,-not fact just opinion.

chocoluvva Mon 08-Sep-14 10:19:23

I think the yes voters who believe that an independent Scotland will have a fairer and more just society are over optimistic.

The no voters are slammed for being negative.

Celticlass is criticising a no voter for being positive about staying in UK...

grandtheftmanual Mon 08-Sep-14 10:19:45

Can we have a thread with suggestions of the 'unintended consquences' we may see if, god help us, there is a yes majority?

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