Is anyone else an academic who has not produced enough research while having kids and is now in the s***?

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

There are lots of academics on MN, just wondering if there is anyone else in my position.

Am pg with 3rd dc in 5 years. Have had hyperemesis and other problems in all 3 pgs, which on top of 2 maternity leaves means heaps of time off work. In the meantime I have completely lost research momentum and produced sod all apart from a few book reviews. I was not submitted for RAE (though fortunately my dept did very well without me so none of my colleagues are holding it against me personally.)
Every time I come back it takes me all my time to get back up to speed with teaching and admin, get on top of all the changes in my field etc, and I only ever seem to make baby steps towards producing anything before I am sick or pregnant again.
Just had uncomfortable meeting with (supportive) HoD at which she broke news to me that I am about to get a scary letter from Personnel and a process is going to start which will probably include ritual disembowelling/change to a teaching only contract if I don't get something submitted before baby is due. Which would be fine as long as the foetus behaves and sickness holds off - am only just back at work after 2 months off with HG.

Serves me right for having children, doesn't it?

Agingoth - I laughed at this: "AAAAARGH DON'T HAVE TIME. Student references, constant anal requests from MA dissertation students, endless other dissertations to mark, teaching prep (x1000), commuting, blardy kids et al."

How true, esp. the anal MA students.

On the ESRC - I would do it, unless of course you've got loads of that sort of thing on your CV already. Research council peer reviewing is valued very highly here as a mark of 'esteem'. And a good grant application should be able to make a case to a non-specialist.

ohhhhh god inveterate I would like to get a sort of anti-MA student spray. One of them emails me every day about bloody reference styles. 'Are you SURE this is right agingoth, it looks so intrusive'? ffs look up the bloody MLA style manual on the flipping web like the rest of us have to....

Also seem to have ended up marking 3 dissertations on subjects almost entirely foreign to me, thank god they are second marked...

I think I will do it- oh right so you can put it on your CV can you? Bugger just put a new app in and didn't list it I'll remember that. Am racking my brains to think who might have recommended me as having 'expertise' on the topic, it's tangentially related to some of my general research areas but that's it really. I suppose people just pick up names here and there at conferences etc....well nice to know someone thinks I am capable of it anyway!!

True, if it's good, it'll convince me, won't it...

god the above sounds awful. I do LOVE my students really, lol....but termtime taxes my affections.

Yes, students are nice in ones and twos, it's the sheer quantity which becomes wearing. I found myself shouting at the computer screen after some arsy email came in earlier today.

The ESRC applicant might have cited you in their application, I think that's sometimes how they choose the reviewers.

THIS mystery space thread... I am sure it will be right up the street of lots of CAWKs...

Thanks for comments re R&R. Yes, it is hard not to see the critical one as the 'right' one. Will take suggestion of addressing each point first, before integrating into article.

Very much appreciate the suggestions from you. Will let you know how I get on.

And DEFFO do the ESRC reviewing. It is an important esteem indicator here too. And also I think a really good way of working out what gets funded/how to write a proposal! I do a bit and I never fail to learn something from it. As well as - of course - good citizenship.

Just have to say that it's so comforting for me to see established academics like you lot struggling with your revise and resubmits. As mentioned here, I got one about a month ago now, and have been going round and round in circles trying to work it out.

The thing is, I have the luxury at the moment to do nothing but write. But it seems to be taking a stupidly long time to get anything done, to such an extent that I'm full of self-doubt and constantly wondering if I've got what it takes and whether I'm becoming the talk of the institution, the postdoc who doesn't publish! Aaaargh!

The other thing is I'm pregnant, which is brilliant, but I am TOTALLY dreading telling them (assuming all is OK at twelve weeks). Maternity leave will be taken slap bang in the middle of a two year postdoc, and I feel as though they will think I am abusing a privilege. I'm praying that they might extend my contract, but not sure if that will happen, there's no precedent for it here, though if they don't I will have almost no time to write up this new research at this institution at least. I'm really worried about where that will place me in the job market.

Last week my mentor and a colleague stood right next to my desk and ranted about female academics with young children, and the colleague explained with great pride that she'd not taken any maternity leave at all when she had her children! I thought that was a strange thing to do seeing as my mentor knows I have a young child (though we never mention it, that subject is thoroughly out of bounds)!

Gosh, sorry, what a self-pitying rant! Please blame the pregnancy hormones!

"Last week my mentor and a colleague stood right next to my desk and ranted about female academics with young children,"

Sounds pretty damn unprofessional to me even if not actually bullying - do you have to have this person as your mentor?

Hello Kathy, hope you're getting on OK with the new baby.

Well, it was funny, because part of me felt like crying/walking out (pathetic, I blame being pregnant and feeling sick!), and the other part felt like telling them (esp. the colleague) that they were dinosaurs. My mentor often complains of being exhausted due to workplace and other stress and that seems OK, but if I was to mention tiredness due to DD keeping me up, that probably wouldn't be (I haven't dared test it). But at the same time, she often questions why women with young children get special dispensation in the workplace.

I can't really get another mentor though. In most other respects she really is excellent, gives me a lot of her time which I value, and she's given me more training in the last few months than I received during my whole PHd. I also work fairly flexibly to accommodate childcare so in practical terms its good. I just wish that I didn't have to constantly pretend that my DD doesn't exist!

Blimey, Vulpus, I thought I knew some geeky people...

nopubs: sounds like your mentor's a bit rubbish on the work-life balance stuff, but good otherwise? Is there anyone a bit more sympathetic there you could use as an unofficial mentor? Failing that, you'll have to come on this thread like everyone else...

Congrats on the pregnancy, by the way! Is your postdoc funded by a grant/research council at all? If so, they probably have standard maternity procedures - I got pregnant right at the beginning of a two-year postdoc, and I got most of my time, just delayed. May depend on the timescale of the original grant, though.

Just another general thought - is it usual to be so down over a revise and submit? I understood this was pretty much standard as the only alternative to an outright reject - I don' know anyone who's ever been accepted straightaway. Is this a discipline-specific thing?

No, I think it is normal too. But because I am so shite 'behind', it is still pretty rare for me.

On the whole, though, am positive. In fact I know I sent in this piece with some work to do, but could no longer see wood for trees so was using as a way of getting feedback on how to make it publishable. I can't be the only one who does that too... can I?

Just wanted to pop by and say congrat's to nopub's on your pregnancy. I hope everything goes well. I'm saddened, but not particularly surprised by your mentor's comments. I've had some really stupid comments from a couple of colleagues myself.

On the topic of revise and resubmit - I've been trying to revise my flaming book manuscript for a shocking two years. (Although I was on maternity leave with DD for some of that time.) I really let the comments from one of the reviewers get to me, but - looking at them now - they weren't that bad. It's so painful to still be working on it after all this time & I wish I'd just grown a thick skin and done what was needed (which really wasn't that much.) I'm now on maternity leave and have a precious 3 mornings a week from now to Christmas to get it done. Thankfully, I'm being quite productive and might actually get it finished. Here are some positive and productive vibes to anyone else doing revisions

Hello all, thanks for the congrats (still not quite 12 weeks yet so being a little bit cautious still)!

Yes - that's exactly right Skiffler, she's a great mentor in most respects, so really the lack of emphathy on the baby front is OK, and I do work fairly flexibly, which is a massive advantage.

Re: funding, it's funded by the university. I will get maternity leave, but don't know yet if I will persuade them to add this time on the end/stretch the contract. I am hoping I might be able to persuade them on the basis that this is best practice according to the main funding bodies. If they don't, any publications that come out of this new research will be attributed not to them but to any other institution kind enough to employ me (she says optimistically hoping that someone will)! But I have a feeling that a fixed cost is allocated to the postdoc position, and that extending the contract would add to this cost, so therefore it might not be possible. Ultimately though, life comes firmly before work in this instance (I didn't feel I had the luxury of waiting as am getting to slightly advanced maternal age!), so I can only hope for the best.

I'm just deciding whether it's best to speak to HR on a confidential basis first to size up the options before going to my mentor ... not sure at the moment.

Right, back to that paper, to be revised with a positive mental attitude!

hi nopubs, I have had 3 maternity leaves on fixed term research contracts, I managed to squeeze 2 into one 2 year contract (!) - those were in the far off days of shorter maternity leaves.

They were all in externally funded positions but that shouldn't really make a difference, the university should be able to extend your contract and/or find someone else to do essential work during it. I had a mixture of those for my jobs, though in reality I ended up doing a lot of the work after I came back from leave, which was partly why I took short leaves, my work wasn't mostly the sort someone else could just pick up and do.

You should push the university for something reasonable, they have enough money, resources and policies, don't let them fudge it. I wrote my own maternity leave replacement/workload plan for them, that can help, showing the funders/boss/team how you imagine the work can be done in your absence.

But don't let them say, no there is no money to extend the post. There should be. and if they say there isn't I would go to the union at that point, though I personally never had to.

I hope you'll all take it the right way if I say I'm quite relieved to learn I'm not the only one knocked for six by R&R's.

meanwhile I have spent the past couple of days trying to think of a friendly reviewer and I am SO out of ideas it isn't funny. Gaaaahhhhhh

Phdlife
Can you say what your area is broadly? Perhaps some of us will be able to suggest reviewers?
(What happened to our private area - have I missed it or has it not happened yet?)
No pubs - does your university have a policy on contract research staff - most do - there may be something in here that would help you.

thanks Hammy, but [shy]

Nopubs - glad the mentor is otherwise good.

PhDLife - damn the lack of Mumsnet private rooms!

I agree with others, it is strangely comforting to know that other people do have emotional responses to rejections etc - it is something no-one ever talks about in our dept so one always imagines that either no-one ever gets anything other than straight acceptances, or else people are always completely professional in their reactions to them.... It's nice to see that other academics, including successful ones, are, in fact, human.

Anyway, today I submitted a grant application (while breastfeeding) so am quite chuffed that I am in fact getting stuff done on maternity leave . Wish me luck with it.

Grant applications whilst breastfeeding? You must be some kind of superwoman! And good luck!

Just in case anyone has me down as the calm, rational type who's completely unfazed by a resubmit, I do get quite upset sometimes over reviewer comments. I find it helps to just put it to one side for a few days until I'm ready to approach it constructively. After all, a revision is SO much better than a rejection!

Yes. I have now sent the comments to my 'critical friends' in the Dept and they are all very positive (including the co-author I was battling with who told me the paper needed his final say-so when it so clearly didn't! Funnily enough the feedback is on matters entirely different to the issues he was concerned with. Am I wrong to be gratified about that?). A number of them are going to help me with the revising etc.. Which is good. New approach in our group to try and get everyone more published. I am liking it so far.

Kathy, that is amazing, go you!

btw nopubs be sure and let us know when you've passed 12 weeks, so we can break out the champers on your behalf

LOL @ superwoman - my senior management team would beg to differ....

Vulpus, my dept is also encouraging much more peer reviewing of papers within the dept - I also think this a good thing.

Gawd, the approval process for grant apps within the university seems complicated - enter it on a computer package, there is some kind of approval process and they send out a form for applicant to sign and HoD to approve, only when this is received by research office do they give institutional authorisation.... why do they need my signature on something that just confirms what I have already told them?! Is this the same in every uni?

Yep, fraid so.

oh well I'd better get used to it then....
Given that they recently introduced a computerised system for approvals you would think it would have covered all the stages of approval, though, wouldn't you?