Is anyone else an academic who has not produced enough research while having kids and is now in the s***?

[Kathyis6incheshigh]

There are lots of academics on MN, just wondering if there is anyone else in my position.

Am pg with 3rd dc in 5 years. Have had hyperemesis and other problems in all 3 pgs, which on top of 2 maternity leaves means heaps of time off work. In the meantime I have completely lost research momentum and produced sod all apart from a few book reviews. I was not submitted for RAE (though fortunately my dept did very well without me so none of my colleagues are holding it against me personally.)
Every time I come back it takes me all my time to get back up to speed with teaching and admin, get on top of all the changes in my field etc, and I only ever seem to make baby steps towards producing anything before I am sick or pregnant again.
Just had uncomfortable meeting with (supportive) HoD at which she broke news to me that I am about to get a scary letter from Personnel and a process is going to start which will probably include ritual disembowelling/change to a teaching only contract if I don't get something submitted before baby is due. Which would be fine as long as the foetus behaves and sickness holds off - am only just back at work after 2 months off with HG.

Serves me right for having children, doesn't it?

Hello everybody!

Well, I have just started my postdoc and (apart from some separation anxiety now that DD is in full-time childcare, mainly me with the anxiety that is, not her, she seems to be fine at the moment) I'm in a slight honeymoon period I think, where I can't believe they are going to pay me for two years to do more really interesting research of my own choosing! Is this wrong? Should I be feeling more cynical and jaded? I am not sure what to think! I am quite anxious that I'm not going to be good enough though, and that I'm never going to get published, so that does take off some of the shine.

Apart from that, my big project is to get pregnant, as I also had a miscarriage on my first day in my new job, which was admittedly rubbish.

Good luck for the new term/year everybody!

Hi all. Welcome to new CAWKers and welcome back to everyone else!

I have one week in the office, then a week working at home (unless hospital admit me due to tranverse baby, in which case I'll be marking work experience reports in an antenatal ward) then maternity leave starts. Baby due on 13th Oct. Right now I'm beavering away trying to sort out my teaching cover for while I'm away. I am paranoid the baby's going to randomly arrive early, which is a good motivator....

We've just moved buildings at work and I have a lovely new office. We also have Dyson Airblade hand dryers in the loos and a dishwasher in the staff coffee room (in fact, we have a coffee room, which we didn't before) so we are all feeling very loved by our employer. Don't feel a heavily pregnant woman in dungarees is quite the look the HoD wants for the shiny new building though....

Nopubsyet - congratulations on starting your new job! Did you resolve childcare dilemmas? So sorry about the miscarriage. Will keep my fingers crossed for your pregnancy attempts!

Hi girls

Here I am thinking that I must be the only person mad and/or suicidal enough to persevere with the idea of having three kids in 5 years whilst continuing with a full time post in academia... It is great to see others in similar circumstances.

Good luck to you Kathy! I hope to be joining the ranks of mothers with three kids under five in early December. Of course, there are heaps to do between now and then ?

And the first on the list is a small ethical dilemma: I am having my performance review next week and, aside of listing successes and failures (!?!) I am being asked to comment on factors that contribute/limit my personal effectiveness at work. Would you mention family in this context? I am not sure whether to go for the politically correct (fantasy) line on the ?total commitment to my research? or the more realistic ?against all odds (kids) managed to achieve a little bit???

bugaja, I went for the latter: it was OK but I'm not in a Russell group university where it probably isn't done...

I can never work out if airblade is a perk or a form of torture.

Hi Bugaja.
Yup, mad/suicidal
I think it would depend on who was doing my performance review and whether they had kids themselves. If I did mention it though, it would definitely be in terms of positives as well as negatives - eg 'I am forced to fit my work into fewer hours and have less flexibility about working at weekends or evenings but because of that I am more efficient and task-focused when I am in the office.' Which is true.

Hello everyone
Just re-found this thread.
I have submitted my application for flexible working (well I have emailed my HoD to check that they are OK with it before I submit it). The guidelines say it can take HR up to 14 weeks to process it though .......
Will let you know how it goes.

Oh this thread gives me hope! Childless colleagues just dont seem to get it. They wake up late on a saturday, go for coffee, leisurely lunch then do a few hours. I on the other hand dont think I have had a week truly off in years. I remember last year writing a paper whilst watching childrens films on boxing day

Surely there must be a few of us in psychology / social sciences etc who would be interested in doing some research on this very subject? We could get brownie points for a nation wide collaboration

Infact, we should set up our own research forum

Hi all.
I have trouble again at work
Had a truly horrible email from HoD accusing me (non-specifically, so I have asked for examples) of missing a number of deadlines and letting down colleagues.
There is one deadline I missed this summer when I had a bad week of sickness and lots of medical appointments (for which I provided the appropriate sicknotes).

I am utterly incensed and hugely upset because I have worked my socks off this summer to meet deadlines, do my full share of the work, etc, so as not to let down colleagues. I could have easily been signed off work for months with this sickness but battled on because I didn't want to let everyone down (suppose he'd had to find someone else to pack and move my office.... and supervise my dissertation students.... and do my marking, etc etc. I did all these things and much more bang on time and completely reliably.)
I also offered (offered, note) to help arrange my teaching cover because I knew I could do it more cheaply by pulling in favours etc than by leaving it to him to sort out. There are one or two elements that are not fixed up and unlikely to be totally sorted by the end of tomorrow - eg I was let down at the last minute by an institution hosting a study visit - and I am also in trouble over this. I would happily work to get everything done before the baby comes in 3 weeks. Anyway all this is being used against me.
It's fairly clear what's happening. He's gathering evidence in case my research productivity doesn't pick up to make out I am incompetent at all elements of my job so they can get rid of me easily in time for the REF.
I am not going to take this lying down.

Kathy - what is your union like?
DH had a horrible couple of years and the AUT people at his place have been utter stars. Really held his hand in tribunals and stuff.
Are yours any good? Specifically, do they have women's officer? If not, why not?

I'm told they're good. I am a member. I will be in touch with them.

Please do that.
DH was written off for the last RAE and not supported in his research and refused promotion.
The AUT people helped him through meetings with HoD (insisting on sitting in with him, talking through what should be said beforehand, and what should be minuted). They supported him in his appeals against the lack of promotion. They helped him write his promotion documents.
He was promoted during the summer and gave both of them big bottles of whisky.
They were incredibly helpful and knew what to say to HoD about support that should have been offered and procedures that should have been followed.
I really recommend getting them into any meetings you have with your HoD. It makes them more formal, and that is to your advantage.

(DH wants to add that it is a very clear indication to your department that you are taking things seriously and will not be messed about.
He says, don't feel bad about yourself. You will feel as though you are over-reacting, but you are not. The first external assessment of his work said it would struggle to make even national importance, but he fought for an indepdent assessment - which came through three days before the final submission for the RAE - this said that his research was internationally significant and crucial to anyone in the field.
I saw what thefirst assessment did to him. He had to fight his own feelings of depression to fight for that second assessment.
Hope this helps. Good luck.

Thank you very much Libra & Libra's dh. This is very helpful. I'm glad it worked out for him in the end.

hi Kathy

I was reading last week's THES over breakfast this morning and there is a relevant article on page 6, if you can still get hold of it.

It is entitled 'Unequal opportunities in final RAE' and states that men were almost 40% likely than women to be entered in RAE 2008 according to the latest analysis.

THere is a quote from Annette Williams, director of the UK Resource Centre for Women in Science, Engineering and Technology. She points out that the system adopted for 2008 was that if people wanted to be included and were not they had to argue for inclusion if they felt that they had personal circumstances that might have affected their reseach productivity. She says that many women academics spend so much of their time telling management that their families DO NOT impact on their achievement rate, that many felt that they could not then argue this.

There are then recommendations from the Equality Challenge Unit that suggest new guidelines for the REF.

Hope this helps.

Hi Kathy,

Have been on the this thread since the start under different names.

So sorry you are having to deal with this, especially at a time when you should be winding down and looking forward to spending time with the baby.

FWIW, I think you have been nothing short of heroic soldiering bravely on through your sickness. I know how utterly grim it is.

I just wanted to second what Libra said about the union. You should not have to face this without professional support.

Also to say that a colleague was in a similar position and sought legal advice. S/he was originally told that his/her research was not up to scratch, faced capability proceedings and the sack, but eventually ended up getting promoted.) So if you do not get any joy from the union, do not be shy about finding a solicitor.

IME, HODs often act rashly and ill-advisedly when it comes to these sorts of cases. If you stand up to them, and show that you will fight it, they can quickly realise that they haven't got a leg to stand on.

Good luck.

THES article Libra linked is here.
It's helpful to have this as generally management in my dept refuse to admit that there are any gender equality issues involved in the RAE. Their line is that very good provision is made for maternity leave.

Just to update you, this morning was rather awful - when I opened my email there was another message from HoD responding to points I had made after his first email (but still not giving specific details of missed deadlines ). Pretty unpleasant stuff. Fainted, fell off chair, came round on floor. Called community midwives who asked me lots of questions and said I needed to see GP to get checked out.
GP was lovely, did usual checks and established baby is fine, told me it was caused by drop in blood pressure due to shock, & told me to lie down & not to do any more work today in case there were any more upsetting emails!
'Tis a great time to start being nasty to someone isn't it....37 weeks pregnant.... after his initial email on Wed I was sick several times then awake until 6 in the morning having regular mini-contractions and not being able to work out if it had sparked off labour or not! Fortunately that all calmed down but was fairly knackered the next day. I mean, does he not have ANY idea about pregnant women and stress? The irony was I had been powering through the remaining tasks until all this started.

God I so, so, so regret struggling on and not just getting signed off work for months

Inveteratenamechanger, thank you SO much for saying I've been heroic - it's so kind and support like that really does make a difference when HoD is being so utterly unappreciative.

Shit Kathy. Did the doctor sign you off?

So sorry you are having to go through all of this at a time when you are supposed to be preparing to give birth and enjoying those last few weeks of being pregnant.

When do you actually go on maternity leave?

Poor you, Kathy. Your HoD sounds like a nasty bully - sadly familiar, I'm afraid.

Hang on in there. Hope you manage to have a good rest over the weekend, and get some union support next week.

I meant it about you being heroic! I think only those who have suffered severe ms/hyperemesis can appreciate how dreadful it is. And IIRC you work away from home some of the week too. You are a star, and don't let your HoD tell you any differently.

Libra, today's meant to be my last day. I called the department and said 'Look, I've been told to rest today but I will work tomorrow.' (Parents are here so I have childcare ).
I have some final tying-up-of-loose-send stuff to do - not more than a few hours work - would have all been done yesterday am if I hadn't been up all Wed night . Plus the few things that need handing over where I am waiting for responses which haven't come.
Doc didn't write a sick note because it's just one day and you only need one after a week.

It's not the fact of not being able to enjoy the last few weeks of pregnancy that upsets me as the fact that I will go off on maternity leave under a cloud which I know will affect my enjoyment of the leave and make returning to work stressful. My last pregnancy also ended badly with work because I had a problem which meant I was getting very little sleep so my brain was totally fried and I made loads of mistakes in the last few months. I was so determined that this wouldn't happen this time and no-one could say I had left things in a mess. Now HoD is saying it even though it's not true

Inveteratenamechanger - it certainly feels personal in a way that the stuff re research back in the summer (that was handled by the deputy HoD) didn't.
I never felt like she was personally out to get me, even if there were Dark Forces in the university that were, and while you can't 100% trust anyone who is implementing nasty policies, there is a big difference between implementing them in a way that gives the person a chance, and a total set-up.

Kathy - my impression is that the general climate in universities is getting a LOT tougher, so what you are experiencing may be part of a general trend.

By the way, it's worth noting that the European Research Council extends your 'academic life' by 18 months for each child - i.e. for grants where you are only eligible to apply for 10 years after completion of your PhD, you could apply up to 14.5 years post-PhD if you had had three children.

I think it is significant they are recognising that the impact on your career goes beyond the formal period of maternity leave. If your department sees adequate maternity leave arrangements as the only factor in gender equality, then they are way behind the times.

Take care.

Ooh, that's really good about the European Research Council. Very significant. The thing is, research councils can lead the way because it doesn't actually cost them any more money to loosen up the criteria for giving out grants (unlike, say, universities giving extra study leave which would cost them) but as research councils are respected and sucked up to their attitudes should be influential.

Yes, the environment in universities is getting tougher, I think.

Anyway I'm on maternity leave now, hurrah! Worked all day till 4 but that's all my work tied up now, so I can focus on talking to the union and doing the research that I want to do. And resting and reading Marian Keyes novels.
And I just got a rather nice email inviting me to contribute to a special edition of a (top) journal

Quick question - can anyone remember what the REF census date is going to be?

thanks.

According to the latest HEFCE consultation document it's going to be December 2012. This is certainly the date the powers that be here are working with. Eek!

Enjoy your maternity leave - and let us know how you get on with the union.

(Great news about the journal, btw.)

Thanks Inveterate!

Has everyone got students coming back today or is it just my place? Good luck with the new term, anyway!

Kathy
No specific advice to offer beyond what has already been said - just wanted to offer virtual support. Hope that you manage to enjoy your maternity leave.