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Original poster

Re: Pro-rata bank holidays for part-time workers?

40 replies

p2b · 09/04/2009 12:33

Hi

I wonder if anyone can offer any advice or info. I am currently on maternity leave and looking to go back part-time, three days a week. Proposed days are Wed, Thurs, Fri. I have enquired with HR about the holiday entitlement and pro-rata bank holidays which I assumed would be the norm but apparently not. Because I will not be working a Monday (when 4 out of the 8 bank holidays fall) I will not be entitled to them. Am I right to feel a bit peeved? Is that not unfair and unequal treatment of a part-time employee?

I have done a bit of research but i don't think there is any obligation for my employer to give pro-rata bank hols (I have found a test case where the employer was not found in breach of the legislation) but on the directgov website it says an employer should!
I work for a large employer (a university) - any ideas about how I might tackle this issue. I'm seriously thinking I'm daft not to work Mondays?

Many thanks
p2b

OP posts:
EffiePerine · 09/04/2009 12:35

tbh I'd consider working on Mondays anyway, I think you can miss a lot if you're not in the beginning of the week. When I was working 3 days I did Mon Tues Thurs

LIZS · 09/04/2009 12:44

different companies offer different schemes , some prorata hours for all bh which you can offset or use for leave, others give you only the ones you would have worked . As long as you are not disadvantaged by being pt compared to what is offered for ft employees it is ok.

potplant · 09/04/2009 12:45

I used to work with a woman who had negotitated a deal where if bank holiday fell on her non working day she used to get a day in lieu, so she would usually take another day's leave in the same week. It used to wind everyone else up no end! She was their first part timer and the general attitude was that she was taking the p*ss. They never did it for anyone else!

I dont think its a legal right for you to pro-rata bank holidays - but I could be wrong.

Would ditto what EP says - stuff tends to happen at the beginning of the week so if you don't work these days then you may miss out.

ilikeyoursleeves · 09/04/2009 12:49

Yes 'tis pants. I work for the NHS PT (Tue, Wed, Thu) and I am only entitled to 4 PH's a year (Xmas and New Year) so while the rest of the UK is off on Easter break this weekend I don't get the days back. Well, I'm actually off sick just now with a stinking cold (today and yesterday) so in a way I have had my 2 days anyway but would rather feel in good health!

I tried to work Mon- Wed to get round this but had to work on Thursdays to attend certain meetings etc. See if you can work Mondays, that way at least you'll get your PH's.

LadyMuck · 09/04/2009 12:54

How many days holiday are you entitled to? The statutory holiday entitlement has just increased to 28 days per year, and some employers are now including some or all public holidays within those 28 days.

ssd · 09/04/2009 12:55

I don't see a problem here. If you don't work on a Monday then you don't get the bank holiday. You're not missing the day, you don't work it anyhow.

ssd · 09/04/2009 12:57

ladymuck, is that if you work 5 days out of 7?

janmoomoo · 09/04/2009 13:02

Hey Sleeves, I work for the NHS and under agenda for change you are entitled to bank hol leave. Basically everyone gets their normal hols and then 8 days (however long your normal working day is) bank holiday leave, and this should be added onto your leave entitlement. Then if you take it on the bank hol all well and good, and if you dont because you dont work that day you get to take it another time as part of your leave entitlement. This is standard NHS AfC policy as far as I know.

But I dont think this is standard or legal requirement elsewhere. I think p2b should consider working mondays too or you will just loose out. Five bank hols on Mondays this year.

eandh · 09/04/2009 13:04

I work mondays and fridays so most of the bank holidays fall on my working days they are added onto my holiday entitlement and then I have to book them off (weird way of doing it) if I dont want to 'use' holiday on a bank holiday (work in a bank so we rae not open) I can choose to work a different day that week and keep the holiday entitlement, all part timers are given the bank holidays pro rata'd but they have a spreadsheet where you input your working days, length of service and it calculates the rest for you. Overall I get 120 hours of holiday (which is about 17.5 days for me) when I take bank hols off (2 easter, 2 in may, 1 in august and this year 1 at xmas) I am left with 11 days which is just over 5 weeks which is the same amount of holiday as if I were full time

Jojay · 09/04/2009 13:07

Where I work you have to have worked 6 out of the 8 previous Mondays to get a day off in lieu for a BH. So no, you wouldn't get an extra day off.

But you're not at work anyway so i don't see the problem

blueberrysmoothie · 09/04/2009 13:12

You don't necessarily get all the Monday PHs if you work Mondays. I work PT three days a week (inc Monday) and have to take a couple of the Monday PHs as annual leave as I am only entitled to 3/5 of all PHs.

muddleduck · 09/04/2009 13:12

Totally off topic, but you might want to think about other factors when choosing your days. IME most part-timers don't work fridays so I find that by not working fridays I get to see alot more of my friends and their children than I would if I worked Fridays. Also you may want to look into whether there are any particular activities that you want to do - again I can only take ds1 to swimming lessons because I happen to not work that day.
I know the bank holiday thing may seem important now but ime there are more important factors to take into account. It can be hard to change days once you have things set up so its worth thinking about these things now.
Good luck

shonaspurtle · 09/04/2009 13:17

I work for the NHS Mon-Wed and get prorata bank holidays. We're entitled to 8 days so I get 5.

Depending on how the BH fall in a year I may find myself having to use up some of my annual leave if more than 5 BH fall on my working days, say if Christmas and New Year fall on a Monday/Tuesday, but over the years it works out so that pt workers are not disadvantaged no matter what days they work.

I thought this was general employment law now. Certainly my Health Board brought it in a few years back in response to a change in legislation (I'm sure it was before A4C).

2HotCrossBunsAnd1InTheOven · 09/04/2009 13:25

Just wanted to add my two pence worth... my employer pro-rates bank holidays. I work 3 days a week and am therefore entitled to 3/5 of the 8 bank holidays a year (i.e. 5 days). They then work out how many of the 8 annual bank holidays fall on my usual days of work. I used to work M, W, Th so more than my allocated 5 days would fall on my days of work and I would have holiday deducted to compensate (I could elect to work a day in lieu if I prefered). I now work T, W, Th and only 1 bank holiday this year falls on a day I would be working. Therefore to ensure I don't lose out I have been given an extra 4 days holiday allowance. As I get to choose when to take these i suppose it is better than ft staff who don't get such a choice. Some would say it's better to be off on a Monday!!

To do otherwise I think is unfair on both pt and ft workers. Ft workers are paid a full time wage and don't get pay deducted or have to take holiday to get a day off work (the bank hol) if pt workers are at home anyway they are getting no benefit for this. Likewise if pt workers can have a day off for all 8 annual bank holidays without it being pro-rated then a pt worker is clearly better off than his/her ft counterparts.

Also being off on a Monday is fine - it takes til at least lunch time for my colleagues to get started for the day anyway so I really don't miss that much. Fridays are def the obvious and easiest days to be at home!

PuppyMonkey · 09/04/2009 13:27

I work for a newspaper tues, weds and thurs and get pro rata bank Holidays cos i don't work Mondays. A feisty colleague of mine brought it up at board level here (she didn't work on Mondays either) and the new policy was eventually introduced that way. I get an extra two days to take when I want now.

I do think it is unequal. Re ssd's post, it IS an issue because if one of OP's colleagues also worked three days - but say Mon, Tues and Wed - they WOULD get all the Bank Holiday Mondays off. Amounting to several extra days holiday more than the OP, even though she is working the same number of hours.

ilikeyoursleeves · 09/04/2009 13:27

Thats interesting that there are AfC conditions now in NHS re PH's. I don't think I'll pursue getting the easter hols back though as I am going on mat leave in a few months time (having only returned from mat leave in Nov 08!) so I feel people may think I am taking the piss now.

JuxaLOTmoreChocolate · 09/04/2009 13:36

It seems unfair to expect to get a day off for a day you wouldn't be working anyway.

shonaspurtle · 09/04/2009 13:41

It seems unfair to get paid the same over the year for working more days than a colleague who works Mondays, which is what the status quo would amount to.

PuppyMonkey · 09/04/2009 14:49

Juxa - I'll explain it again: if one of OP's colleagues also worked three days - but say Mon, Tues and Wed - they WOULD get all the Bank Holiday Mondays off. Amounting to several extra days holiday more than the OP, even though she is working the same number of hours.

Sheeta · 09/04/2009 14:54

Where I work they work out a percentage of bank holidays depending on days you work, then add it to your annual leave.

So, annual leave entitlement plus bank holidays is 38 days (yes, I know) and I'm entitled to 40% of that (if that makes sense).

If a BH falls on a day that I would be working, then I have to take it as annual leave, or I don't get paid for it.

tbh, I don't see your problem, if you were working Mondays, then you'd get paid for the BH,but you're not.

southeastastra · 09/04/2009 15:09

i was wondering this too but i'm contracted to work 20 hours per week and usually work thurs/fridays. utterly confused.

PuppyMonkey · 09/04/2009 15:15

Right I'm getting irritated now by people who don't understand what the problem is!!

If she'd chosen to work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, she would be getting all those bank Holiday Mondays off. So she'd only work on two days - Tues and weds - those weeks. Yay.

However, if she chooses to work Wed, thurs, fri, she won't get any Bank Holiday Mondays off. And she'll have to work three days. No Yay.

That's why it's not fair!

Don't make me type this again.

2HotCrossBunsAnd1InTheOven · 09/04/2009 15:26

PM I am annoyed too! What you say is quite corect but it's not just about what particular days the particular pt worker works. It's also about being fair vis a vis ft workers. FT staff get 8 paid days off a year for bank holidays. For example, if a pt worker doesn't work on a Monday he/she is not getting paid for any Mondays whether they are bank holidays or not. Therefore actually his/her salary is not proportionally fair. As I work 3 days my salary is 60% of waht I would be earning if I was ft. To suggest that I actually then have 8 days unpaid deducted from that salary (nearly 2 weeks wages!) because I am not working on those bank holiday days anyway is grossly unfair.

christywhisty · 09/04/2009 15:36

I looked into this about two years ago and you are entitled to a prorata bank holiday but I am not sure if the rules changed recently.
I used to work 20 hours a weeks
I was entitled 26 days holiday plus 12 days bankholiday and christmas prorata.

This is from the direct.gov website

"
If you are a part-time worker, you are still entitled to 5.6 weeks' holiday ? 5.6 of your normal working week. For example, if you work two days a week week you would be entitled to 11.2 days' annual leave a year:

2 days x 5.6 weeks = 11.2 days

"You should be treated no less favourably if you are a part-time worker than an equivalent full-timer. This means that if your employer gives extra days off to full-timers they may have to give extra time off to part-time workers as well."

RibenaBerry · 09/04/2009 16:14

p2b,

By law, you are entitled to be treated no less favourably than an equivalent full time worker (i.e. someone in a similar role) in your organisation/company.

For most employers, this will translate as pro-rating the bank holidays in the manner a lot of other posters have described.

The complication comes if full timers do not automatically get bank holidays off either. The test case you were referring to was (if we're talking about the same case) one where the business operated seven days a week and full timers were working a rota system of (I think) five days per week. Those full time employees did not get a paid bank holiday off unless they happened to be on the rota as working that day. If it was one of the days they didn't work, they didn't get any extra. The part timer wanted pro rata bank holidays, but as a result of the arrangement in place for full timers, the Tribunal said that the part timer was not being disadvantaged - she was just getting the same rule applied to her that everyone else had.

Hope that helps. In general, the pro-rata rule holds good!