Re: Pro-rata bank holidays for part-time workers?

[p2b]

Hi

I wonder if anyone can offer any advice or info. I am currently on maternity leave and looking to go back part-time, three days a week. Proposed days are Wed, Thurs, Fri. I have enquired with HR about the holiday entitlement and pro-rata bank holidays which I assumed would be the norm but apparently not. Because I will not be working a Monday (when 4 out of the 8 bank holidays fall) I will not be entitled to them. Am I right to feel a bit peeved? Is that not unfair and unequal treatment of a part-time employee?

I have done a bit of research but i don't think there is any obligation for my employer to give pro-rata bank hols (I have found a test case where the employer was not found in breach of the legislation) but on the directgov website it says an employer should!
I work for a large employer (a university) - any ideas about how I might tackle this issue. I'm seriously thinking I'm daft not to work Mondays?

Many thanks
p2b

What Ribena said. You must not be treated less favourably than a full timer.

If a full time person where you are works 5 days a week Mon-Fri and in addition to their holiday entitlement gets 8 extra paid days off on bank holidays, you should get the pro rata equivalent.

If you work 3 days a week you will be entitled to 8 / 5 x 3 = 4.8 bank holidays, which should be rounded up to 5.

Hi

Many thanks for all your replies. The reason I have chosen to work at the end of the week is because my husband is able to look after our son on a Friday whilst I am at work. I do not particularly want to work a Monday and a Friday and would also prefer my son to attend nursery or a childminder over two consecutive days so thats why I thought about Wed, Thurs, Fri.

I think I will get in touch with HR again and highlight that I am entitled to be treated no less favourably than an FT employee and that if the bank holidays are not pro-rata this would not be so. All FT employees at the university are entitled to the Bank Hols so the circumstances are not like that of the test case. Do you guys think this is an appropriate course of action?

Many thanks again for all your time. I'm very grateful.

p2b

P2b, if you don't mind me asking, what university do you work for?

This might help:

www.admin.ox.ac.uk/ps/managers/hours/part.shtml

It's long-winded, but think it makes sense.

Hi Sheeta

Thanks for the link it is very interesting. I don't mind you asking - I work for Leeds Metropolitan University.

I have just dug out what HR said in request to my enquiry about bank holidays. Please see below. This isn't right is it? I need to get back to them quoting that I should not be treated less than a full-time employee?

If you were to work on a 0.6 basis, you would be entitled to 23 days annual leave. In terms of the bank holidays, there are 8 customary days in a year. For those days that you work, you would be entitled to take the bank holidays that fall on these days. However, for the days that you do not work, there is no pro-rata entitlement for the bank holidays ? as you are proposing not to work Monday?s, you would not be entitled to take time off in lieu for these days.

I have worked out that next year 3 of the 4.8
pro-rata entitlement fall on my proposed days of work so I should be entitled to 1.8 days holiday (or pay which is ordinarily rrounded up to 5 days)?

Hi again

I could really do with some help here. I wrote to my HR dept questioning the fact that they do not pro-rate bank holidays for pert-time workers. This is the reply I received after my query has apparently been discussed with central HR.

"In practice and in full co-operation with the union, the University has not formally agreed fixed working days with staff on Academic contracts because of the nature of the profiling process. In practice, it is the contact time (teaching time) that is agreed for certain days and there is flexibility about the completion of the balance of the work in any case. In essence therefore, you are only entitled to take bank holidays on days which you are due to work i.e. any that fall on Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays. I understand that you may feel your circumstances are different as a Research Fellow".

I do not teach and neither do the majority of my colleagues so I don't really understand how the above effects me. I have been given the phone number of the head of HR if I wish the situation to be clarified further. Any advice? Also, if they do not have formally agreed working days when i feel out my flexible working request can i just say I wish to reduce my hours to a 0.6 post but not specify over which days I will carry out these hours?

Bump

Have you tried phoning ACAS for advice?

It makes no difference whether your working days are fixed or not or what you do for a living. If a full time person working 5 days a week gets 8 bank holidays then a part timer person must get a proportion of those as well. How the working time of the part timer is arranged makes no difference.

You can't be disadvantaged compared to a full timer, simple as that. So if a full timer gets bank holidays, you must get them too. If your working hours are irregular they could work your holiday out in terms of hours rather than days, but basically how they work it out is not your problem.

Hi Flowery

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the delay in getting back to the board. I have been told by HR that support staff do get their annual leave entitlement worked out in hours and so do get pro-rata bank holidays. However, because I am on an academic contract I do not. Can this be right? Obviously my immediate colleagues are also on academic contracts too but neither the majority of them nor I have contact teaching time. I was also under the impression that the new HERA payframework had harmonised terms and conditions for academic and support staff - does anyone know anything further on this?

All help gratefully received.
p2b

That's just bizarre, varying how they manage annual leave depending on what someone actually does while they are working! I don't know about harmonised terms and conditions, that sounds like a good idea, but for these purposes it doesn't really matter. If full timers get bank holidays, as a part timer you should also get a proportion of bank holidays, simple as that.

Working leave out using hours would be a good way of doing it, as they seem to do with support staff, but whether they do that for academic staff or use another method is their problem, quite frankly, as long as you get what you are entitled to.

I suspect that their argument for academic staff is that if their teaching happens to fall on a BH Monday, they would be expected to make up the teaching by adding in an extra class at the end of term for example.

Not all institutionshave adopted HERA T & Cs yet though they should have... but most still don't have totally harmonised pay (many wondering where the money for backdating is going to com from...).

I would ask HR, why at least you can't be given an annual hours contract. It does make things a lot easier! Then try a union rep.

Hiya, now i'm totally confused!! I work mon wed and fri. I get 15 days holiday which includes BH's, so with most BH falling on a Mon or Fri, these are taking out of my entitlement. I understand that i get 3/5 of a full time worker who get 25 days INC BH. So, If i take off the 8 days BH I only get to actually choose 7 days which equates to 2 weeks and 1 day. However, a full timer gets to choose 17 days, which equates to 3 weeks and 2 days. I am convinced I am not getting my correct holiday entitlement, and have checked this with management who keep telling me its right! Can someone help!! Thanks

littlemissnaughty it's not about how many days you get to choose, it's about how many days you actually get, and as long as you are getting the same number of paid days off as a full timer in proportion to the hours you work, then that's fair.

Having said that, neither you nor the full timers where you work are getting enough holiday. Basic holiday entitlement including BH is now 5.6 weeks a year, which is 28 days for someone who works 5 days a week, and 16.8 days for someone who works 3 days a week.

Basic holiday entitlement

The issue is being confused the problem is as follows

not all part time or shift workers can work mondays:

This means that without pro rata bank holidays

that those who do not work mondays have to work four more days a year for the same pay as other workers who do work mondays and who work the same total hours per anum.

Or put another way Workers who do work mondays have four extra paid days off per year than other workers that work the same total hours per anum but who do not work mondays.

Simple!

Sianywoo this thread is six years old. I think it's fair to assume the OP has resolved her problem by now and is not reading it....