Mansplanied

[Mimmi78]

I have been told by my boss to apologise for saying to an external colleague, “thanks for mansplaining to me”

Yesterday was a busy day, lots on, I work in busy financial services role, interact with lots of external stakeholders at other company. The interaction was,
me - hi can I have this thing
him - no because of this, then, tacked on end a full explanation of how thing works.
for context 27 years in my industry, know how thing works. Explanation not required. I should just have said it in my head but my skirt pocket was fresh outta Fs to give.

Boss sympathetic but just wants it to go away, demands written apology, let’s get to it ladies, help me write the best apology for this one.

Lets be honest here, you are upset because the OP has been called out on her language and behaviour by a man.

If the OP had gone to her boss and complained you would have been quite happy for him to be called on his behaviour.

The hypocrisy here is all yours at least have the deency to own it.

Oh you and your made up stories 😂

Sexism and people who are willfully blind to it make me angry, that's all.

Though it is always funny watching people turn themselves inside out trying deny that sexism could ever possibly be a thing. So many creative ways to explain away what Occam's razor would say is just boring old everyday sexism. I guess some people are so used to sexism against women being normal they don't even see it.

Question - what does sexism aimed at women actually look like for you? Or do you think it's only men that suffer from sexism?

I don't think you are a hypocrite by the way, I just think you are very confident but not very observant. Hence the question.

What is an external colleague, does he work in the garden? Saying that someone is mansplaining is as sexist as that man that calls you gorgeous when they want you to do something and blonde if you make a mistake. Just say, I was in a hurry and I did already know how x worked, I'm very sorry for using an offensive term.

Well, I don't smile and nod along with minimising sexism, if that's what you mean. And I understand that small things that individually may not seem making a fuss over can still have a cumulative effect.

But I get many people prefer to keep things superficial and that's ok. I only bother responding when they start dismissing other people's experiences because they themselves have not experienced something, or have not thought very deeply about what they have experienced.

It's probably an experience thing. It takes a couple of decades to realise just how much the same patterns keep repeating.

For starters memories are generally quite unreliable. Unless someone makes a point of recording an incident and then comparing it with other incidents, they generally don't exactly remember what happened without data and references. This is just how our brains work our brains work. Without reliably recording data, it is next to impossible to infer patterns from memory alone.

Secondly, and crucially, if you see the world through a certain lens, then even your initial observations would be tainted by your biases. This isn't specific to women and sexism, you can find this in any group that sees themselves as victims, they will interpret every occurrence through the lens of their victimhood.

I've many times read on MN, 'pretty sure he wouldn't have done that to a man', and in the vast majority of times I think, actually I'm pretty sure he would have. Especially if it was a man who was smaller and weaker.

The only person denying sexism is you.

You must get really angry when looking in the mirror, or is it that this is the wrong kind of sexism?

Are you also the sort of person that men must get in touch with their feelings and then get upset when they do, as have many posters on here?

I sincerely apologise that you felt offended by my comment.

I use this often. Please note I have not apologised for offence I may or may not have given.

Then that's a weird comment TBH. Sexism exists. While both sexes suffer from it in different contexts, It's mostly women who face the biggest disadvantages through sexism and I think that matters. I think brushing it under the carpet is unfair to women.

Call that hyperbole if you want, it doesn't change things or mean I'll stop caring.

I'd use the 'politician's (non) apology' technique: "I'm sorry that you were offended..."

I’d have apologised for using ‘mansplain’ as it’s a sexist term. Instead I’d want to have said, ‘Hi Bob, apologies for using the term mansplain. I hadn’t really thought about it much before, but of course you’re right to be annoyed. It is a sexist term and instead I should have used ‘overexplained in far too much detail’ to describe your lecture, which was unnecessary given I’ve been in the industry for 27 years. Still at least you know now, eh?!’

In real life I’d have probably written something like, ‘Hi Bob, I hear you want an apology for my reaction to your monologue last week. Sorry.’

I literally have no idea what you are talking about.

I don't know what your issues with "other posters" are but it does seem like you are now projecting a whole load of things you seem to be very angry about on to me.

I've certainly never denied sexism exists, neither towards women or towards men. I simply don't agree with you that it is sexist towards men to describe a man doing something sexist.

So I've told you exactly what I think and why, and I've asked you a question to understand where you are coming from, because honestly you do just seem to think sexism is women criticising men full stop regardless of whether wonen might have reason to criticise.

What does sexism aimed at women actually look like for you? Do you belueve it exists at all, or do you think it's only men that suffer from sexism?

Now you just seem to be projecting.

I have never said that sexism against women doesn't exist.

I have said that you and others on here seem to be quite hurt that the OP has been pulled up for sexist and unprofessional behaviour.

If you are reading anger into my posts then that is a you issue and something that I can do very little about.

I am quite happy for either sex to be pulled up for sexist behaviour, something that many on here don't seem to agree with.

Nope. Not what I said, not what I meant. I'm not playing. If you want to talk about what I actually said and bring a sensible argument I'm here.

You also said

"You must get really angry when looking in the mirror, or is it that this is the wrong kind of sexism?

Are you also the sort of person that men must get in touch with their feelings and then get upset when they do, as have many posters on here?"

That is what I am referring to as "projecting" - ascribing a whole load of views and motivations to me based on your own prejudices.

You seem to think that "Mansplaining" does not exist as a sexist behaviour. That the word is a sexist word with no basis in reality.

Based on my own experience I disagree, but I understand that is what you think.

And we have now established that you do accept sexism against women exists, just not Mansplaining.

So, progress 🥳

But to really help me understand, please give some examples of what you do think is sexism against women?

I mean, I just wouldn’t apologise. Instead I might lose my own shit at it being condoned by management that’s it ok to explain very basic things to women who’ve been doing them a LONG time. It’s just sexism innit 🤷‍♀️

So I ask questions and its projecting?
You seem to have an issue will being questioned.
How you precieve my posts are a you issue and are not something that I can help with.

I said that the term mansplaining was sexist and that even the woman that coined the term stated that women do it as well, so why use a sexist phrase when "patronising" already exists and both sexes do it.

I have also said that sexism is something that is done by both sexes and those that do it should be pulled up on it.

Why do you need any further information unless its to suit a desire to twist what I respond with?

This. No way would i apologise and he can’t force you

Your boss should have replied, "This bore was indeed being patronising & he wouldn't have been mansplaining if OP was male".

I know Op has already sent a reply, but in her dreams she can wish she'd said,
"Sorry, for letting slip the mansplaining comment yesterday, I should just have said patronising.
It won't happen again, the same as I won't be using your services again. & running to tell tales to your boss, only shows you have zero self awareness"

"You must get really angry when looking in the mirror, or is it that this is the wrong kind of sexism?

Are you also the sort of person that men must get in touch with their feelings and then get upset when they do, as have many posters on here?"

That is not just "asking questions", that is bring in a whole load of your own preconceptions, and I am doing you the courtesy of assuming you are intelligent enough to know that really.

I explained way back the reason "Mansplaining" is a separate word to "patronising". You actually replied to that post, although not to the content. So if you want to deal with my actual argument rather than just ignoring it and repeating the same assertion regardless, I am here.

The reason I want to know what you do consider sexism aimed at women is that I think Mansplaining is a pretty clear example which many professional women experience so I am surprised you are more focused on the supposed sexism towards men of the term itself existing than the behaviour itself and the sexism behind it. That seems to me a very dubious path to tread, where simply describing gendered behaviour and saying it is a negative can itself be dismissed as sexism. (To be extra clear, by gendered behaviour I do not mean behaviour that is never seen in the opposite sex or never gender neutral, but behaviour that is more frequent from gender to the other than vice versa)

Hence I'm interested in what you would actually consider sexism towards women.

Now of course I have some thoughts about what you might say, but I also understand these are just me projecting my asumptions about what "sort of person" you are and may not be what you think at all. So, rather than jumping in, I take a step back and actually ask you what you do think first.

And I'll genuinely be more interested to find I'm wrong about what you will say than I'm right, because that means I get to learn something. Which I certainly won't if all you post is repetitions of a point I already countered.

You don't need to reply of course. But that's why I'm asking.

this ? is a question mark, it is put at the end of a question, I asked the questions of you, what you read in to the questions is down to you, maybe you should look at what I was responding to for some context clues.

As for most of the rest it is hyperbole which another poster has pointed out that you are quite fond of.

As for what I find sexist towards women that ranges from depending on the context to outright sexist behaviour.

I find putting gendered terms that apportion guilt before any facts have been put forward also a dangerous path to tread.

But then that also depends on whether we are taking this purely on how someone feels.