Can my NHS secondment require photos of my home working setup?

[StolenPineappleCup]

Currently on a secondment within the NHS. I don't have a concrete base - it can be any premises within the Trust - but like the rest of my team work remotely at least 2 of my 4 days a week (usually 3 even). The days I would go into a base would be to specifically meet in person rather than just to work from a hot desk. My team has no permanent set up anywhere, just hot desking rooms we can book.

Since Covid when we all moved to WFH we've had to complete an annual DSE assessment for health and safety - a quick, online form - done. This year however they want photographs of our set up at home! Apparently we have to have at least a mouse, keyboard, and a monitor. My work setup is that I sit on the sofa with a laptop table and use the laptop only - it works absolutely fine for me, and I have no MSK issues, etc.

Apparently if we can't have this setup at home we will need to be in a base permanently - even though I don't have one. I feel this would massively impact my work/life balance due to commuting and also the fact I was allowed to WFH before Covid due to ASD.

I don't see how it's fair that they want to police how people work in their own homes? Aren't we all grown adults? Yes they have a HSE/duty of care role etc. but surely if you can sign and agree you're happy with your way of working they surely can't force you to change?!

(I do have a desk and chair upstairs by the way but the desk is one of those stupid angled ones that doesn't adjust for me, and the room where it is is getting renovated - I will have a new one but not until the end of the year)

Yes OP, they can and do require it. During the hours you are working for them they have a duty of care and could be liable for any injuries you get whilst working. Your DSE setup is really important whether that's at home or in the office. Just do it.

Of course they can make sure their employees have suitable equipment, especially when the sickness rate for muscoskeletel problems is so high and costs a lot of money. You may regret working from a sofa one day. Sure it won’t be that great going in daily when you clearly don’t like it but you may have to suck it up. If those you support are their daily then they may find that beneficial. Yes you have a RA but if your set up isn’t suitable I don’t see why they can’t not ask you to come in for a few weeks.

Exactly, if OP doesn’t want to go in, that’s her obvious answer in the short term.

It's fine if you work from the sofa in reality and don't tell them. They will never actually know.

But from an employer's point of view, they have a legal responsibility for your safety during working hours, and have to ensure you have an appropriate office setup.

The truth is that working from the sofa is bad for your posture, bad for your eyesight, and all sorts of other things. It could ultimately cause injuries, back pain etc, which in theory you could tell them they were liable for.

What it basically comes down to is that the employer have to cover themselves and keep you safe. They don't want you to sue them because you damaged your back working on the sofa. They need to be able to make sure you are working from an appropriate setup. Obviously if you actually work from the sofa they won't know, and it's a bit of bureaucracy too, but it's honestly easier to just cooperate.

The reason you haven't had to do it in the past 6 years is because working from home started as a result of a national emergency (Covid) and the NHS obviously takes a long time to catch up - they are realising now that they need procedures for these things and how to keep people safe whilst working from home - it's a big piece of work.

Honestly this is all pretty standard stuff now.

You just need to stop being argumentative and difficult on mumsnet and actually speak to your employer.

Explain you have never been given the equipment. At that point they may say it’ll take a while to order and arrive, so you need to go into the office. You then tell them that’s not possible due to ASD and reasonable adjustments. They then need to come up with a plan. Being as it’s the NHS, this will take a while and they won’t want attention brought to the fact that they have let you work from the sofa for years. By the time anything is done, your new office will be in place so it’s a non issue. You can send them a photo of your office with everything as they want it and then still choose to work from the sofa if you like.

That will only work if you've been truthful about your set-up in all the previous DSE questionnaires and they've chosen to ignore them. If you've filled those in as if you have got the correct set-up then it might be harder to explain the current lack of equipment.

I work in H&S and complete DSE assessments as part of my role. This is for your own wellbeing. Trust me, you need a good DSE set up at a desk, working on the sofa is not suitable long term and you'll be doing damage to your body.
They're being very responsible to check your work set up. I'd set up a desk, be open to their feedback and go from there to make improvements. Please stop working from the sofa!

You’re not seriously trying to say that work can only be done professionally if it’s done at a desk, though?

They’ll have no record of registering a monitor, keyboard etc to the OP so they can’t pretend they thought she had them. Having experience of the NHS, they’ll be much more worried about not drawing attention to their own failings in this than anything else.

OP has stated that one aim the aim of the renovations is to provide a fully functional home office in a month or two. Mocking up a home office from another persons equipment/house or getting AI to generate one is just a temporary measure to get the box ticked. Sometimes you have to break an egg to make an omelette.

lol at "aren't we all grown adults" I can only imagine how many NHS workers are currently claiming long term sick due to back/neck/wrist pain or trying to claim something about their work station.

Just mock up a station for the photo and go back to your sofa. By the way, it ain't great to be on the sofa, it might feel OK now but in the long term you will feel it.

We just ordered from Amazon and submitted receipts. Came next day, not weeks

People don't have time to read every single post. And you keep avoiding properly stating

1. Why you do not have the correct NHS branded equipment even if you aren't using it.
2. Why if you don't have the correct NHS branded you haven't IMMEDIATELY ordered it? And then tell them you are waiting for items and you'll send the photo ASAP.

3.Why when it arrives cant you set up a staged photo and then never use it again?

Surely this is a non issue.

Unless you are SUPPOSED to have requested it before and haven't?

You haven't helped yourself on this thread.

@StolenTeapots My communication skills aren't the best due to my autism, and I get incredibly frustrated being asked the same questions over and over again. So to answer yours (again):

1. Because I've never been told before in approx. 8 years of WFH that I needed to have all of that equipment, it's been offered but not mandated. I didn't want it so I didn't take it

2. Because I only found out yesterday and I'm actually not at work this week, just checking emails. Plus it's not me who would need to order them - I would have to request them which then highlights that I'm not set up as they would want and may mean they want me back in the office right now full time

3. Because until I get my home office set up in the next few months there is nowhere that it will physically fit

Thank-you for your clear reply.

1. If it's never been mandatory before then they can't expect you to have it.

1. I understand that's a risk but you will need to get it ordered ASAP. So when you are back in request it and explain you were using your own stuff (be vague they don't need to know you worked on sofa) and said it's moved out for renovation. And you realised it's probably best to have their correct equipment going forward so explain you've now requested it and will show photo as soon as arrives in the newly done office.

I think you'll get away with the office thing on basis of your adjustment but you need to show willing and be proactive.

Thank you for being polite in your response, and apologies if I've come across combative or rude, there's a lot of things that are frustrating me about my work right now including them not managing to pay me properly so this isn't helping.

I think this is good advice from @StolenTeapots . I would add a caution not to over-explain. They don't need to completely buy it. They may well just be looking for plausible deniability and a way forward. But you showing willing is important now.

That's very prescriptive. It sounds like it wouldn't work for you personally, but different people work in different ways. Personally I don't find a mouse more efficient than a laptop trackpad, although I realise it depends somewhat on the quality of the laptop. And, although I can only speak for myself, I don't find my mindset or concentration at all impaired working from the sofa rather than at my desk. In fact, because I'm more comfortable on the sofa, I'd go so far as to say it probably helps my productivity. Not everyone finds office-style chairs comfortable.

Heck, I have been known (due to suffering from ME) to start my morning working from bed, and while I obviously wouldn't Zoom from bed, the actual quality of my work hasn't been any different. Not necessarily saying it'd work for most people - but working from a sofa really isn't as egregious as you might imagine.

OP I think the simple solution is just to tell them you don't have the setup they are requesting and get them to provide it at their expense. You say they only just made it a requirement ("They haven't supplied it because we didn't know we were supposed to have it until today"). They are unlikely to make you come in because of your RAs so they will either get it to you quickly or place you on disability leave until they provide it.

I know an extremely famous and eminent scientist who does most of their (non- practical) work on a chaise long 😂

I completely disagree. I am extremely professional in my working life, but I have worked from my sofa with my laptop on my lap for 25 years without an issue. I have no need for a mouse when Ive got the trackpad on the laptop. If Im hosting a large Zoom meeting with lots of documents, then I will work from a table but other than that, Im far more comfortable on my sofa and much more productive because I’m comfy. When my daughter left home 12 years ago, I converted her bedroom into a lovely office, but apart from using it for meetings and storing all my files, I still continued to work from my sofa, and have now made it into a bedroom again. Of course working like this doesn’t suit a lot of people, but it’s how some of us like to work.

when I slipped a disc in my back four years ago, I was bedbound for over three weeks, and worked from my bed during most of that time, including hosting Zoom meetings 😆

@StolenPineappleCup Apparently we have to have at least a mouse, keyboard, and a monitor. My work setup is that I sit on the sofa with a laptop table and use the laptop only - it works absolutely fine for me, and I have no MSK issues, etc.

That's a ridiculous way to work.

You're supposed to be doing work, not relaxing on a sofa in front of the TV.

I don't have much time working at home, but even my WFH set up consists of a dedicated keyboard, mouse, monitor, and desk which are all completely separate from my normal personal desktop setup.

@shuggles point me to where I said I was relaxing in front of the TV? I never have the TV on even when I'm working... sometimes for 14 hours a day...from my sofa

You’re the first person to mention the TV